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COTW: Double Barreling COTW: Double Barreling

12-07-2009 , 05:38 AM
It's going to be very valuable to win the pots on the turn and river when you do not have the best hand since, on average, the pot will be larger on later streets. This concept is all about how to win those pots with a second barrel. Double barreling is so opponent and situation specific that I won't be able to give you guys an exact playbook about the subject in text alone. What I can do is give you a whole bunch on information on the topic in the hope that you will understand the underlying concepts and learn to apply them in the right situations on your own.


A quick warning about double barreling:

As I have said in numerous videos and have pounded into the brains of several of my students, you make most of your money at micro stakes by C-betting flops and by value betting later streets. The biggest mistake that bad players generally make is that they call too many junky hands pre-flop and they don't fold later streets, therefore you will want to C-bet flops to make them fold all of their misses and value bet later streets to get calls from the hands they hit and call down with, not by betting a ton turns and rivers trying to make them fold top pair weak kicker etc.


Things to considder:

Three big things come to mind when thinking about double barreling. They are PLAYER READS, BOARD TEXTURE and EQUITY. Board texture actually influences several things, namely flop continuing ranges, board development and scare cards. These terms are loosely defined below.

Flop continuing ranges: A flop calling range will simply be the hands that our opponents will play back at our flop C-bets with. Everyone will have slightly different flop continuing ranges and this is where player reads become important.

Generally speaking, it is going to be better to double barrel against a wide FCR than a tight one since wide FCR's will have more marginal hands in them. A flop continuing range is influenced both by pre-flop calling ranges and by board textures. For example if your opponent is calling a bunch of hands out of the big blind they will have more hands in their range that flop marginal junk like 2nd or 3rd pair that will peel the flop but will have trouble calling later streets. Also, some board textures are going to get peeled by more hand combinations than others and this will play a big role in double barreling.

Board development: Board textures will change based on the turn and river. Some board's won't change much while others will change a great deal. Knowing how different board textures develop on later streets will be vital in your understanding of double barreling, especially when you relate it to FCR's.

Scare cards: I don't think I need to go too much into this. Scare cards are anything that hits your perceived range. They are also cards that result in bad board development from your opponent's perspective. You'll see what I mean when I get into examples of specific textures.


Rick's list of double barreling generalities:

1) We want to double barrel when the board texture develops such that our opponent's turn continuing range is much smaller than their flop continuing range or when the turn card improves our hand's equity in the pot.

2) Bad boards to double barrel will be ones where your opponent has a low/tight FCR.

3) The best card to double barrel will be a scare card that both results in bad board development and improves your equity.

4) Bad cards to double barrel will be ones that improve your opponents percieved range, pair the board, or are considdered to be "bricks" in general.

5) All other things being equal, we should be more likely to double barrel when we are out of position. This is because we cannot take free cards to capitalize on our equity in spots were our opponent is unlikely to fold to a turn bet. It is also because our opponents will be much more likely to float or peel light against us when they are in position.

6) You will be amazed how much note-taking will help. Reads will be very important when in marginal situations since each persons preflop and flop calling range will be different. If for example, we see someone make a very loose peel against us when OOP then we should seriously considder fireing more bullets against them in the future, even on bad barrel textures.

7) JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE BARRELED THE TURN, IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU ARE COMMITTED TO BETTING THE RIVER. I can't stress this enough. I teach and play a pretty aggressive game and if I were just monkey shoving every river after two barreling, I'd be broke. A big reason why we two barrel is to make our opponent fold his marginal hands so why we would always be auto-shoving rivers when called is beyond me.

8) Look for spots where your opponent would almost always raise you with a strong hand or draw on the flop. If they just call, this could be a sign of weakness (or not if you and your opponent are on the same level).


Flop textures and how they relate to barreling:

I said that knowing how boards develop would be an important part of double barreling. Here are some various flop textures, I'll try to tie some things together. Try to remember the little generalizations I just made.

Ace high and king high "dry" flops

These are great boards to C-bet on. Not only are aces and kings in your perceived opening range but it will be very difficult for your opponent's pf range to consistently connect with these boards. To put it simply, when you c bet on A82, your opponent will be folding 6x7x, KxQx etc. There are also no draws that your opponent could be check-calling the flop with.

BOARD DEVELOPMENT: There are no real scare cards that can come ont he turn and the worst this board will usually be will be on the flop.

OPPONENTS FCR: It should be very tight when they are OOP. Use reads to figure it out for when they are in position.

OUR EQUITY WHEN BEHIND: When you don't have the best hand on A82r, you probably won't have it by the river. You can still bet equity based two barrel cards (if you turn a flush or straight draw) to balance for when you want to bet good hands.

When you get called on this flop, your opponent often has top pair, doesn't want to fold and you should be reluctant to double barrel without reads or specific meta.

One high card, two low card flops

When I say 1 high card and 2 low cards, I'm referring to flops like J42 etc. These boards are decent for C-betting because your opponent will usually fold all unpaired hands but since the jack does not make up as much of your perceived range as an ace does, you are likely to get peeled lighter on average. These boards are fine to C-bet, so long as you're prepared to two barrel when required.

BOARD DEVELOPMENT: This sort of depends on just how low the second card is. There will be 3 over cards on the jack that will be decent to 2 barrel, there will also be several cards over the 4 that are good to betbecause they will be scare cards for small pocket pairs and will aid in bad board development. These cards will be something in neighborhood of 9x and Tx, especially if they bring a flush draw because these are perceived equity boosters that will make it very tough for our opponent to bluff-catch the turn with marginal hands due the the thread of a looming third barrel.

OPPONENTS FCR: It will be middle of the road.

OUR EQUITY WHEN BEHIND: A lot of our range will have 3 to 6 percieved outs with a whole bunch of backdoor draws. Not bad if you ask me!

Two high card, one low card

These may be the absolute best boards to C-bet against a reasonably wide pre-flop calling range when in position. The reason is because people cannot call a bet without some sort of top/2nd pair or draw. Examples of these flops will be KQ2. Again, since people need some sort of strong hand to call a bet on these textures, we should be less inclined to fire multiple barrels when called.

BOARD DEVELOPMENT: Probably won't get too scary from your opponents perspective.

OPPONENTS FCR: Very tight.

OUR EQUITY WHEN BEHIND: It's not spectacular. Lets hope you turn a draw.

Low, loosely coordinated boards

A low, loosely coordinated board is something like 974 and sets up excellent for barreling. Why? Because these flops get peeled by everything.

BOARD DEVELOPMENT: This board also gets pretty damn bad a good about of the time. The most innocuous this board will usually be will be on the flop as there are five overcards that can come off. This means we need to be c betting these flops with the intention of betting a ton of turn cards to punish our opponents for peeling us light.

OPPONENTS FCR: All pairs will call, a lot of ace high hands as well as weak draws and other random hands.

OUR EQUITY WHEN BEHIND: SUPER AWESOME!

Coordinated boards

These are flops that hit ranges hard. On a flop such as T87 you can expect to get peeled and played back at a ton. For this reason, these are generally bad boards to c bet. What should an "air" C-betting range look like on these flops? Generally it will be something that can improve when called but not so strong that we would be bothered to get check raised off of out hand. Examples would include a hand like AK.

One thing we need to remember about these textures is that our opponent will almost always raise or check-raise our C-bet with the top of his range. Therefore when we do occasionally c bet and are called, we can actually double (and tripple) barrel these boards somewhat often since a flop flat call is almsot always a marginal hand and our range will be stronger, on average, when we C-bet.

Summary on textures and barreling:

These obviously aren't all of the possible flop textures but I hope that by now you can come up with some strategies related to other boards. Notice that some boards get peeled a lot while others don't and some boards can get very scary while others rarely do. When making the decision to barrel please use your player reads to make some assesment on just how wide someone is peeling your bets and how likely they will be to fold on various turn cards. I can't overstate this.

Some of you guys will move up to mid-high stakes it will really help to get a feel for what level your opponent is on. When these double barreling concepts become common knowledge then it can sometimes be correct to play your hands in a way that is counter intuitive to this logic. For example, sometimes it will be correct to check back a strong hand on bad double barrel cards because your opponent won't expect you to frequently bluff. It may also be correct to occasionally bluff in this spot or to bet thin for value in spots where your opponent alyways expect you to be barreling.


Some hand histories:

Try and figure out where the concepts apply.

Full Tilt Poker $400.00 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com


**HAND ONE**
(Villain is a weak regular who calls wide from the blinds)

MP1: $400.00
MP2: $139.10
CO: $400.00
BTN: $63.00
SB: $72.00
BB: $300.00
UTG: $174.40
UTG+1: $152.50
Hero (UTG+2): $433.00

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is UTG+2 with A K
2 folds, Hero raises to $14, 5 folds, BB calls $10

Flop: ($30.00) T 4 6 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $20.00, BB calls $20

Turn: ($70.00) Q (2 players)
BB checks,
Spoiler:
Hero bets $54.00



**HAND TWO**
(Limper is a weak fish)


Full Tilt Poker $1000.00 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

UTG+1: $1060.00
UTG+2: $784.00
MP1: $2027.00
MP2: $3005.00
CO: $565.55
BTN: $2457.00
SB: $490.00
Hero (BB): $1040.00
UTG: $425.00

Pre Flop: ($15.00) Hero is BB with J Q
5 folds, CO calls $10, 2 folds, Hero raises to $40, CO calls $30

Flop: ($85.00) 6 3 K (2 players)
Hero bets $50.00, CO calls $50

Turn: ($185.00) A (2 players)
Spoiler:
Hero bets $135.00


**HAND THREE**
(Caller is a good regular)


Full Tilt Poker $400.00 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $249.60
SB: $819.30
BB: $578.50
Hero (UTG): $440.50
UTG+1: $484.00
MP1: $764.00
MP2: $813.00
CO: $394.00

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is UTG with K A
Hero raises to $14, 1 fold, MP1 calls $14, 5 folds

Flop: ($34.00) 4 5 7 (2 players)
Spoiler:
Hero checks


**HAND FOUR**
(BB is a tough regular)


Full Tilt Poker $400.00 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP1: $400.00
MP2: $139.10
Hero (CO): $433.00
BTN: $63.00
SB: $72.00
BB: $400.00
UTG: $174.40
UTG+1: $152.50
UTG+2: $400.00

Pre Flop: ($6.00) Hero is CO with Q J
5 folds, Hero raises to $14, 2 folds, BB calls $10

Flop: ($30.00) 7 4 T (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $20.00, BB calls $20

Turn: ($70.00) 9 (2 players)
BB checks,
Spoiler:
Hero checks



Looking forward to the discussion.

It's been real,

Rick
COTW: Double Barreling Quote
12-07-2009 , 05:46 AM
Will read now, thanks.
COTW: Double Barreling Quote
12-07-2009 , 05:47 AM
2nd
COTW: Double Barreling Quote
12-07-2009 , 05:54 AM
Like it. You've broken down a pretty indepth and technical subject into simple to follow guidelines. Wish I had something like this to read 12 months ago.
COTW: Double Barreling Quote
12-07-2009 , 06:14 AM
very good read! and enjoyed the examples to make us think!

on the last one, we have 8 outs to the nuts and also 6 outs for top pair, y do we not DB??? also, a know theres a flush draw out there on the turn, so we can have less outs, but a flush draw is a small part of his range!
COTW: Double Barreling Quote
12-07-2009 , 06:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark89er
very good read! and enjoyed the examples to make us think!

on the last one, we have 8 outs to the nuts and also 6 outs for top pair, y do we not DB??? also, a know theres a flush draw out there on the turn, so we can have less outs, but a flush draw is a small part of his range!
Oh good, I was hoping someone would ask about this.

In spoilers, just in case people want to take a guess.
Spoiler:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky1231
5) All other things being equal, we should be more likely to double barrel when we are out of position. This is because we cannot take free cards to capitalize on our equity in spots were our opponent is unlikely to fold to a turn bet. It is also because our opponents will be much more likely to float or peel light against us when they are in position.
Quote:
4) Bad cards to double barrel will be ones that improve your opponents percieved range

It's not that our equity doesnt improve on this turn, it's that the turn improves too much of our opponents percieved range and gives him too many hands that can either peel the second barrel or check raise us off of our draw with.

I wouldn't say to always check back this turn but when we do bet it we really run the risk of getting raised off of our hand and since we are in position, we can take a free card and still rep some showdown value since we would check back a lot of one pair hands here as well.
COTW: Double Barreling Quote
12-07-2009 , 06:26 AM
will go through this in depth later today but this sounds solid for most of who don´t know when to 2nd barrel who on which board

thanks for the effort
COTW: Double Barreling Quote
12-07-2009 , 06:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky1231
Oh good, I was hoping someone would ask about this.

In spoilers, just in case people want to take a guess.
Spoiler:






It's not that our equity doesnt improve on this turn, it's that the turn improves too much of our opponents percieved range and gives him too many hands that can either peel the second barrel or check raise us off of our draw with.

I wouldn't say to always check back this turn but when we do bet it we really run the risk of getting raised off of our hand and since we are in position, we can take a free card and still rep some showdown value since we would check back a lot of one pair hands here as well.
was kinda thinking about this after I posted it, if we DB he will be likely calling with what ever he decided to float with, ie small pp's, mid pairs, top pairs

thanks for the quick resonse dude!
COTW: Double Barreling Quote
12-07-2009 , 07:48 AM
Great post! Thanks a lot OP.
COTW: Double Barreling Quote
12-07-2009 , 09:00 AM
Awesome. Been waiting for this COTW for months. Great job Ricky!!
COTW: Double Barreling Quote
12-07-2009 , 10:16 AM
thanks for the hard work. will look forward to reading.
COTW: Double Barreling Quote
12-07-2009 , 10:37 AM
Great post mate, excellent read!
COTW: Double Barreling Quote
12-07-2009 , 10:49 AM
This is a damn fine contribution for the series. Thank you for writing down in clear fashion what I have been trying to explain to myself for a while now.
COTW: Double Barreling Quote
12-07-2009 , 11:00 AM
if anyone hasn't done so already, i would watch all of ricky1231's videos on stoxpoker. he is extremely good at explaining everything.
COTW: Double Barreling Quote
12-07-2009 , 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostik
This is a damn fine contribution for the series. Thank you for writing down in clear fashion what I have been trying to explain to myself for a while now.
+1

I've been groping at figuring double barreling out, but this clears it up. Thank you.
COTW: Double Barreling Quote
12-07-2009 , 11:48 AM
Clarified some things, thanks.
COTW: Double Barreling Quote
12-07-2009 , 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky1231
Oh good, I was hoping someone would ask about this.

In spoilers, just in case people want to take a guess.
Spoiler:






It's not that our equity doesnt improve on this turn, it's that the turn improves too much of our opponents percieved range and gives him too many hands that can either peel the second barrel or check raise us off of our draw with.

I wouldn't say to always check back this turn but when we do bet it we really run the risk of getting raised off of our hand and since we are in position, we can take a free card and still rep some showdown value since we would check back a lot of one pair hands here as well.

But this example that you gave earlier kind of contradicts your advice here


'A low, loosely coordinated board is something like 974 and sets up excellent for barreling. Why? Because these flops get peeled by everything.

BOARD DEVELOPMENT: This board also gets pretty damn bad a good about of the time. The most innocuous this board will usually be will be on the flop as there are five overcards that can come off. This means we need to be c betting these flops with the intention of betting a ton of turn cards to punish our opponents for peeling us light.

OPPONENTS FCR: All pairs will call, a lot of ace high hands as well as weak draws and other random hands.

OUR EQUITY WHEN BEHIND: SUPER AWESOME!


Another problem with the check behind would be that we are a big dog to make our straight on the river, and if the J or Q hits it may make him a better hand. What do we do if he leads into us on the river?
COTW: Double Barreling Quote
12-07-2009 , 12:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pechorin
But this example that you gave earlier kind of contradicts your advice here


'A low, loosely coordinated board is something like 974 and sets up excellent for barreling. Why? Because these flops get peeled by everything.

BOARD DEVELOPMENT: This board also gets pretty damn bad a good about of the time. The most innocuous this board will usually be will be on the flop as there are five overcards that can come off. This means we need to be c betting these flops with the intention of betting a ton of turn cards to punish our opponents for peeling us light.

OPPONENTS FCR: All pairs will call, a lot of ace high hands as well as weak draws and other random hands.

OUR EQUITY WHEN BEHIND: SUPER AWESOME!


Another problem with the check behind would be that we are a big dog to make our straight on the river, and if the J or Q hits it may make him a better hand. What do we do if he leads into us on the river?
The reason this doesn't contradict his post is because of the huge amount of equity we picked up. If we get CR off our draw here we have to give up all the equity we gained on the turn card. If we instead had air and were double barreling as a bluff we were adding EV to our hand in the form of FE and we can comfortably fold knowing he had the top of his range. If we bet when we gain this much equity then we fold out his light peeling range and continue against a range that doesn't fair well against our range.
This may be totally wrong but I assume this is what he is referring to in his post.
COTW: Double Barreling Quote
12-07-2009 , 12:11 PM
^^I think it more has to do with the fact that it's more of an improvement card for our opponent's overall range, rather than for our range.
COTW: Double Barreling Quote
12-07-2009 , 12:15 PM
5) All other things being equal, we should be more likely to double barrel when we are out of position. This is because we cannot take free cards to capitalize on our equity in spots were our opponent is unlikely to fold to a turn bet. It is also because our opponents will be much more likely to float or peel light against us when they are in position.
COTW: Double Barreling Quote
12-07-2009 , 12:18 PM
Ricky...1st off, thanks for getting involved with the CotW threads. We are making an army of regs that will rapidly invade our stakes and make it tougher to eek out a BB or three

As you stated, so much of this is villain dependent that making a generic strategy is pointless. Related to that.... I feel that not enough emphasis is given to PF (should we even get involved?) and successful dbl barreling is one very big reason for involvement.

As a side note I would like to agree with.... while at our stakes unloading the clip can be very successful, I think more care is needed in call-happy micros.
COTW: Double Barreling Quote
12-07-2009 , 12:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by I vi ii V7
^^I think it more has to do with the fact that it's more of an improvement card for our opponent's overall range, rather than for our range.
Very true.
COTW: Double Barreling Quote
12-07-2009 , 02:35 PM
Personally, I'm quite a bit more apt to DB from an EP raise. It's very easy to rep the overpair from that spot and I'll get more folds even from boards that seem like they don't hit me.
COTW: Double Barreling Quote
12-07-2009 , 02:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DDAWD
Personally, I'm quite a bit more apt to DB from an EP raise. It's very easy to rep the overpair from that spot and I'll get more folds even from boards that seem like they don't hit me.
I do the same.
COTW: Double Barreling Quote
12-07-2009 , 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Spew

As a side note I would like to agree with.... while at our stakes unloading the clip can be very successful, I think more care is needed in call-happy micros.
Well, this is true and it isn't, in my opinion. Having recently made the move from $50 to $100, I have already noticed some differences in the field's response to double barrels:

In the micros, villains in general are more likely to fold to a second barrel fired on a turn scare card (A/K/Q). At $100, people will think about their equity and your range more often, and will not necessarily auto-muck when the scare card comes. But at $50, they just fold a lot more to scare cards. So in this regard, I disagree a bit with King Spew--everything else being equal, I would bet scare cards at the micros in situations where I might not at $100.

At $100, you can't really double barrel bricks profitably. Ricky points out that this is not a good idea generally, and, for the most part, I agree. But at $50, I kind of specialized in double barreling bricks. I'd look for opponents who were generally weak tight, or who were capable of thinking, "he just doubled a brick, he must be value betting," and i would barrel bricks against them. It worked, A LOT. I took that strategy to $100 and my c-bet success rate fell by 50%, and it turned my double barreling from a profit center to a leak. In this respect, I would expect $25 to play more like $100 than it does like $50--not because the players are better, but because, as King Spew says, they are more call happy in general. So definitely think twice (or three times) before doubling a brick, as Ricky said. In this regard, I think King Spew is correct to advocate caution in the micros.

These were the big differences I noticed when I moved up.

______________________

Ricky, the OP is 5 stars, sir. Thank you.
COTW: Double Barreling Quote

      
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