I'm new to this website (just found it the other day), and I'm relatively new to live poker. I've played a total of 3 live tournaments and about 5 live cash game sessions.

Last night after work I went to the casino to play some cash game with my winnings from the last tournament I played in. I was playing 1/2 NL and I had about $200. The only real read I have on the table is that nearly everyone is a weak player that either plays monster hands or any pairs/draws and they all like to gamble as they're all older folks. I'm by far the youngest person at the table.

Hero in BB: A K
Two players limp in
Villain on BTN: Raises to $15
Hero 3-bets to $50
Folds around to the BTN. He looks at me and then kinda tries to look at my chip stack, then asks how much I have behind. He then cuts out his calling chips and puts them in.

Flop: J85 rainbow board with only one heart.
Hero checks
Villain checks

Turn: 2
Hero: I sit and think about it for about 20 seconds or so, and then I decide to check it again. I'm pretty sure that this is my mistake after reviewing it in my head later on.

Villain bets $70

Hero: I sit there and look at him for a bit and talk a bit out loud suggesting I think he probably has KK or something big and then after about a minute and a half of tanking, I decide to fold. He mucks his cards, so I'll never know what he had.

Anyway, I'm very aware that I probably misplayed this hand badly, and that by checking on the turn I basically gave up my hand or played it face up. My gut told me he had a big pocket pair, and that is why I folded without any draws on the board and maybe an Ace on the river gives me the best hand. Should I have just shoved on the turn or check raised all in on the turn?

Be easy on me, like I said, I'm pretty new to live poker and I'm mostly aware that I probably played my hand poorly. But advice on what I should have done/should do against players like this?

Hi dude.

What's your total experience of poker? I presume you've played online? Are you mostly a tournament player?

Just asking so I can pitch my response appropriately.

Yeah, mostly online. And mostly SNGs online. I played 3 live MTTs in the past month or so and I cashed in two of them. I've played online for about a year maybe. Not that long. Like I said, very new to poker and especially live poker.

cbet flop. then decide to 2 or 3 barrels or not.

double check on dry board oops rep AK given up..

never 3bet AK oops if u play fit or fold... keep the pot small or raise more preflop

OK, well live plays very different to online and cash plays very different to tournaments, especially SNGs.

Do you use tracking software online?

Yeah, I've noticed quite a bit of difference. Mainly in the fact that it seems it is far more difficult to get people to fold any pair or face card/draw.

I don't use tracking software, no. I play on Ignition and I don't know of any software that works well with it.

Any specific reads on the V? I think most important details here are if there are any 3-bets going around. If there are very few 3-bets happening, then him flatting the 3-bet is pretty strong in itself, and I probably wouldn't c-bet unless I hit TPTK/FD.... but if the table is a little looser and there are above average of 3-bets happening, then I am inclined to c-bet a lot of flops.

I think AP, we can X/F... we played our hand like AK, and many live V's think all PF raises are like AK.... anyway, X/F is ok IMO as played. Definitely c-betting a lot of flops in a 3! heads-up, but like I said, IMO it depends a lot on the pre-flop dynamics.

You're absolutely right. Live low stake cash is one of the hardest game to get folds in, maybe even harder than $2NL online!

Therefore you have to play a heavily value based strategy live. At least until you get very good at making live reads. That'll take time and concerted effort but eventually you will learn to spot the good players and situations to bluff.

This particular hand you are effectively readless. I'd be happy to flat and see if I can hit a pair or big draw and catch someone with a worse hand to pay me off postflop.

I'd want a bit more of a read on this particular BTN before I 3bet. For all we know he could be opening very wide to pick up the blinds and limps or he could be a total nit only raising TT+ AK. We need to know why we are 3betting unless its obvious value like QQ+. 3betting AKs is kind of for value but you know most of the time you'll miss the flop and then you need to know what range you're facing and what V will do with that range.

3betting is creating a pot of $100 on the flop with only $150 behind. You could easily have the best hand but you don't know. You might be able to bet and be called by worse but you don't know. You might be able to shove and get folds from better but you don't know. Any reasonable bet that might work as a bluff is going to leave you with $100 or less.

If I did bet at all postflop I'd just shove flop. If I didn't bet flop I'd just fold to any bet as you did. I don't think your line was bad, I think you just lacked enough information to make an obviously correct decision on the flop. That happens a lot until you get good at hand reading and until you've been at the table long enough to establish reads on these opponents.

Read a load of the threads in llsnl. It really helped me get a feel for how live plays without me having to spend tons of hours (and $$$) at the tables. My strategy live is very different to how I play online and it would have taken me much longer to work it out by myself than using this forum as a short cut.

Yeah, pretty much I was the only player making any 3 bets. I think I was 3 bet once by the BTN earlier in the session, but I can't really think of another time that happened.

Seemed like all the older folks just wanted to play for cheap and try to hit something. I don't enjoy playing that way, nor do I feel like that's real poker, so almost every time I had a playable hand I decided to open raise and never limp.

Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it. I felt like I played my hand face up after checking the Turn as well. Afterward, I kept going over the hand and I couldn't understand why he checked behind on the flop.
Yeah, like I said, online I 3 bet a lot with playable hands depending on the reads I get from watching how the table plays. As far as Live, I really enjoy playing live NLH just haven't really enjoyed playing at tables full of older folks who clearly are just playing for fun and to gamble.

As far as my read on this particular V, I didn't have much of one other than the same type of read on the rest of the table that they play big hands and chase a lot post flop. I think that is why I decided to 3 bet him pre, but when he called, I guess I got a little scared and that's why I didn't C-Bet on the flop. I basically knew after I checked back on the turn that I was giving up, but I really wanted to shove, just didn't think he was going to fold.

I've been reading the past few days on this site, trying to get more insight on how to play. Live poker is a lot of fun, but so far it has been expensive, lol. I appreciate the responses. This hand just was on my mind the rest of the night. I didn't understand why he checked back on the flop and then I knew I had to fold on the Turn when I checked again.

C-bet with backdoor hearts for sure. Sometimes cbet no hearts ot c/f.

What amount do you think I should C-Bet on the flop?

As a general rule, don't three bet if you won't c-bet. Sometimes, your 3 bet will win the pot immediately and you won't see a flop. But in live low stakes poker, it's more common that you'll get one or more callers.

You have to be mentally prepared for what happens next before you fire the three bet preflop. AK is going to miss the flop 2 out of 3 times. C-betting on a board like this one says "I 3 bet with AA/KK/QQ/JJ and I still have it and I'm gunning for your whole stack." Given that the pot is already over $100 and you only have $150 left, either jam it all in or bet $75, making it "obvious" to your opponent that the rest will go in on the turn.

If you're not comfortable making big bets with A-high and no reads, don't 3 bet in the first place. Just call and play fit or fold post-flop. But when you choose the 3 bet route, follow through on most boards because (yes, I'm repeating myself) two-thirds of the time you're going to miss completely. You can't just give up on the flop and expect to show a long term profit when you miss that frequently.

Thanks for the response. After reading all the replies and thinking about it on my own, I agree. I just wasn't mentally ready to fire off on the flop if I missed, and that's probably my biggest mistake. I possibly saved myself money by folding the turn, but you can't win if you don't bet.

On the flop you have to c-bet that board. Pot is ~100 I would size your c-bet in this situation based on what you plan to do if your opponent shoves. If you plan to fold to an opponent shove then bet on the smaller end of your C-bet range (45-55 seems about right). If you plan to call a shove by your opponent then you can size your c-bet slightly larger. You miss 66% of the time, however, so does your opponent. In addition to that you pick up a lot of fold equity to an under-pair courtesy of the jack. If you barrel, especially double barrel, it is extremely difficult for 9's and 10's to continue.

What is important to remember is AK is a drawing hand. You have relatively low showdown value when you miss. With that being said you are being extremely exploitable if you check/fold when you miss with AK. As someone stated, you will miss here 66% of the time. This flop is not the flop to give up control so easily. The uncoordinated board texture is perfect for a c-bet and even if you get called I wouldn't panic. You have 28% equity even if your opponent has a J10 or Q10.

With your checks on the flop and the turn any competent opponent is going to bet nearly their entire range on the turn due to the weakness you have shown.

50-55% PSB. This is a standard 3-bet pre vs BTN. You're losing too much value by flatting.

If you cbet half pot on the flop it needs to win 1/3 of the time to break even. If you get shoved on you then need to call $100 to win $300. You need to win that 1/4 of the time to break even. If V has QQ, TT/99 or QJ/JT or 8X you have 6 outs and a back door flush draw giving you just under 25% equity. Yes V may also have JJ/88 or AA/KK but these might be balanced out by some bluffs with AX or T9.

Basically, readless you might cbet 1/2 pot and then have no idea what to do when raised. Either check/give up on flop or shove the flop.



I've seen players call down with an underpair because they think someone has AK. Thing is they always think raiser has AK. You shouldnt cbet thsee guys and it may not be worth 3betting them with AK. You crush them by making a top pair hand and bet bet bet so 3bet TT+ and flat the rest. You don't need extra chips in pre to stack a complete station.

Others open wide but will only flat 3bets with pairs and AK and a few of their favourite suited connected cards. Then they play tight fit or fold postflop. They are excellent targets for 3bet/cbet but you won't get much value from them over multiple streets when you hit as they will be chopping or way ahead when they continue postflop. As such they are almost better to 3bet with junky blocker type hands like AX/KX. 3betting AQ+ is a waste vs these guys.

Some are never folding their AX vs a 3bet and will go broke chasing their Ace postflop and obviously go broke even quicker when you both hit. 3bet these guys with AK/AQ because they offer tons of value postflop.

Some will be nitty with their opening ranges and their defend vs 3bet ranges and they'll also be nitty postflop when they do defend vs 3bets. They might only defend TT+ AK vs 3bets. Depending on how wide they open you may 3bet them as a bluff (AX/KX) or for value with KK+ but AK is wasted as a bluff. If they open very tight as well then AK might not get enough folds pre to work as a bluff and may not get enough value postflop to work as a value hand. Vs nits you may well only be able to get value for your AK by flatting vs their opening range where your hand will be somewhat disguised and their range is widest.

Some players will open very wide on the BTN and isolate very wide in late position. They may interpret any 3bet from the blinds as FOS and be inclined to play back at it with a wide range pre and postflop. You'll certainly want to 3bet these guys with strong hands but you have to get creative postflop if you're going to avoid getting run over and extract any value.

It's possible this is why the V in your hand checked it back to you on the flop. Maybe he hit top pair+ and reads your flop check as weakness (like AK!) so checks back to disguise his hand. Maybe he thinks you'll play deceptively with QQ+ so he checks his whole range on the flop. Then when you check turn too he knows you are weak and he bets everything 8X+ for protection vs your draw to A/K. V could check behind if he's still missed himself or he could bluff shove for maximum fold equity.

I don't think hero shoving turn works at all because it is only $80 more in a pot of $320 vs what is likely a pair+. V might not like calling but I guess he never folds here.


Beware standard lines. I have standard lines I use to protect myself from big losses vs a table of unknowns. The aren't necessarily the same standard lines others would recognise as standard. I also don't use them for very long. As soon as I pick up useable reads I start tailoring my lines to suit individual players and situations.