So I was at Tulalip casino playing 3/5 NL about an hour into my session when this hand came up. Keep in mind this is a $500 max buy game.

Hero (~$750)
Villain 1 ($400) In the hour I have been there I have seen him go up to around $1200, lose it all and rebuy 2 more times.
Villain 2 ($1400) Very solid reg. Have seen him in the $5-10 game several times.

Hero is on button with AKo. Utg+2 raises to $25 Villain 1 calls (cut off), Hero Calls, SB calls, Villain 2 calls (BB).

Before I go any further I realize I should have raised this preflop, but I didn't so please answer the hand as played.

Flop: Kh 3s 8d

SB checks
Villain 2 (BB) checks
Utg+2 check
Villain 1 (cutoff) bets $75
Hero raises to $185, SB folds
Villain 2 (BB) Calls
Utg+2 folds
Villain 1 (cutoff) folds.

Turn: 6d

Villain 2 (BB) checks
Hero checks

River: 2c

Villain 2 (BB) bets $325
Hero ??

More info on Villain than "very solid reg?" that could mean a lot of things. This is a super player dependent spot. Without a better understanding of the player in question it's impossible to determine the best action.

Going on without info anyway, against many players I like the turn check. After villain calls two-cold on a board this dry you're totally WA/WB. But, did you have a plan for the river? Unless this villain is all kind of FPSy he has 8s or 3s full a lot here, AK is possible but it would be a line not befitting of a "solid reg", not sure what else it could be.

Only other info I can give on this player is I know he is a winning player. He seems to play TAG and rarely shows down his hands. Considering he is is usually a 5-10 player he has very little information on me besides I am a regular at the Casino and have won some of the bigger buyin tournaments.

And no I had no plan OTR thats why I am asking. Villains huge bet on this board totally baffled me. After he called the raise OTF I was always going to fold OTT to a big bet or check behind. If he checked the river to me being the nit I am probably would have checked behind. At the time I felt like it had to be 33 or 88 aswell, but wouldn't villain put me on a King here and go for value???

It seems like the only legit hand he could do this with is at a minimum AK.

What kind of hand does a solid player smooth call a $185 with on that flop? Usually big hands.

The quirk is Villain 1. Maybe Villain #2 thought you were taking a stab at the pot because the wild Villain #1 bet.

Tough spot.

I dont see a solid reg flatting pre with ak. If he s really a solid player his range on the river here is only sets or bluff imo. Weighted very heavily towards sets by the way the hand played out. Also its not a huge bet. Its not even pot size. Checking behind here if he would of checked river is not nitty. A solid reg is never calling with worse considering the 6way flop

I fold here. What does villain have other than 8's or 3's full? Can't imagine him flatting our flop re-raise with much else.

1. pot size on streets please.
2. Raise pre. I know you said it, but that's the problem spot, so we would be remiss to ignore it. Raise pre.
3. He flatted a reraise with the initial bettor still to act on a dry board. If that's not a set, I don't know what is. His sizing suggests value as well. It's hard to see this guy calling your raise with Kx.

Comment: You said it's a "huge" bet OP. It's not. It's standard value bet size. Don't get distracted by the $$.

This looks like a set so much... Btw i think calling the flop raise looks waay stronger than rerasing and it keeps the pot smaller with tp hands... If he truly is a good player he made your raise on the flop out as a K and then it doesnt matter what he has as he can take it away after you ck turn with atc... Even tho this rvr bet looks like value not bluff here...

Why did you raise the flop on that board?

I think you can fold here. Cold calling the flop without closing the action is a real hand, and if he's a decent player, it's not KQ.

If it had folded back to the original bettor, you may have to pay this off, but not from a third player.

The point about not raising the flop is a good one though. There are zero draws to price out on this board. You don't need to worry about threatening hands coming in behind you. You should really be focusing on letting a good king think he has the best hand and using your position to extract value.

Edit: Especially since you have already repped "not AK"

For the reg to flat AK oop is fine since against stations when they both hit he'll hit harder and can valuetown while being able to get out cheap when he whiffs/gets too much heat

For hero to flat AKo IP is bad. If you're working on your game, you don't want to improve your ability to minimize losses/max value in bad spots, you want to stay out of bad spots to begin with.

First order of business, point and laugh at villain 1. Then, raise flop bigger and shovel in whatever's left on most turns; should be about a psb.

Once you make the decision to raise (which is probably best in a mw pot, even on a flop this dry), even with v1 folding stacks are still too shallow for you to have any maneuverability.

As played, you've butchered 3 streets in a row so you might as well go for the quadfecta and call off. Villain is never betting worse for value but has a handful of chops, busted draws, stubborn middle pairs and "you checked the turn so you probably don't have it so I'm gonna lead river and get a fold out of you"-type bluffs imo

+1

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I disagree with almost everything posted above, except for raising pre.

Why are you suggesting to raise flop more and shove turn? What does raising the flop accomplish? And why on earth would you shove the turn and fold out any hands that could potentially call a river value bet?

I don't understand this post.

I was thinking the same thing... What busted draws?

Grunch:

Getting close to 3-1 on the river are inticing odds. But, it's still a fold to me...

Villain isn't calling a raise from BB on a dry board with 3 villains to act behind him with pure floats and/our backdoor draws. It's almost a wishful thinking that he shows up with KQ, KJ type hands.

As played it's a fold, most of his range is made up of 88 and 33. I'm discouting KK due to card removal, and the facts that you said he's a solid reg (solid reg won't flatt KK pre-flop out the blinds multi-way).

Fold

The flop raise is just fine, imo. Assuming Villain 1 calls and all else folds, Villain 1 only has about $200 behind, fine raise sizing.

Look at the way villain 2 played his hand, and see if he's on a pure bluff... I'm reffering to your last line.

3 bet pre obv. but we are overlooking that as requested.

Raising flop was a disaster unless the villain is basically a drooler and will felt KQ.

Once V2 cold calls the flop raise i would feel just fine mucking my hand right then and there and get on to the next hand. You are smoked 1000%.

And this check of V2 by the way, is exactly why checking a monster on a dry flop is not the way to proceed. (The mark of a truly novice player---even though he supposedly was not a novice) V2 totally screwed himself by checking the flop and will get paid only by players who are watching football on the screen rather than paying attention to the poker game.



Worth noting, V2 calling a raise cold suggests monster strength. So much so that we should call raises cold (IP) on super dry flops with say gutshots and one overcard (hands with some equity at least) vs a raiser who is just good enough to read hands and know we must be uber strong to call a raise cold, yet weak enough to raise a top pair hand like this. This is an ultra high level play that works VERY well when timed properly vs the right villain, proper images, emotions and skillset. Finding and executing plays such as this are what separate the superstars from the very good players.

Exactly. He also referenced "stubborn middle pairs". Zero percent chance anyone has a middle pair in this spot, especially someone hero has described as a "very solid reg".

Terrible. Awful. Lightingmoneyonfire.jpeg

What does V2 call our raise with that doesn't beat us. Maybe AK? I bet he even folds KQ here if he is "solid". It's the definition of a WA/WB spot.

No need to raise flop on this dry board, let's see if the other players in the hand fold through and then handle V1 on the turn. If V2 or others come along you should be suspicious since their overcall is strong.

Fold. It's 88, 33, or ak. Don't raise flop, ur overplaying ur hand and often fold out worse. There are no draws on flop so u can slowplay

Preflop - you know what you did here. AK 5-way to the flop...
Flop - You made up for the preflop play and got this hand heads up.
Turn - Good news we are heads up in position. Bad news it's vs a winning reg. I am checking behind here as well.
River - Winning reg bets $345 into a $570 pot meaning he's pot commited should you shove as you only have $540 behind. So his bet either means he has a set and wants a call/shove or he thinks you are nitty enough to fold tp and can get you to fold to a value bet when you checked the turn on a dry board.

Regarding flop raise. I'm actually ok with it dependent on just how stupid v is being. Op gave some reasoning but its hard to say not being there. If hell go to the felt with crap then I say raise away. If not its definitely a flat.

ANL- I was thinking the same about the c/call. I've only ever played with maybe 1 or 2 players who I think I could pull that move against. I usually end up thinking, "wow if j flat this it'll look like the nuts." Then I think " these guys don't even know what the nuts are." So I fold.

flatting AK pre, Hero seemed committed to torching his stack so I just thought I'd help him along -- seriously though, this all depends on our reads of V1 and V2.

First, we should be maxing value against the fish on all streets. His likely inelasticity means that we're leaving money on the table when he calls $200-$225+ or stack off with worse as often as he would $185. Advocating a line that results in less value against a fish because we give him credit for being able to bet/fold a made hand is asinine; flatting and letting the world come along while we hope TPTK holds up is almost as bad, even if our motivation is to let him keep bluffing.

V2 in the BB can put us on a range heavy in strong one pair hands when we raise the fish small on this dry flop. Having taken a max-value line against the fish, when V2 surprises us by calling and the fish by folding, the spr will likely be too shallow for us to do anything but gii. This does not mean we made a mistake by trying to stack the fish.

Now, with his information advantage, V2 may well feel he can own us with a river lead if we check back turn, which is another reason even as played for barreling. If he's skilled, he'll as likely as anything else fastplay his flopped 2pr+ hands going after Hero's larger stack and letting the fish go.

His range from the BB should be wide and includes Axs/Kxs with BDFD (the draws that can brick out), middle pairs, etc, which make for WAWB as was mentioned (excepting pair+diamonds on the turn) Problem is, his WB hands are never drawing dead and we would really like it if they just went away because we're going to know even less about where we are on the river (after a checked turn) than we do now

This is a tough spot we shouldn't be in, but if our read of V2 as a strong player means anything, it's that calling two cold doesn't automatically mean he has the nuts.

My comment for raisig flop is towards villain 1. What part of our raise is lighting money on fire when 1. Villain1 is probably tilted (in for 2 b/i and losing a big stack. 2. Against villain 1 our hand is under repped...

Not sure where we light money on fire and our play is terrible...