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AK got 3bet flop Ace high AK got 3bet flop Ace high

12-17-2014 , 01:21 PM
$300 effective stacks only read on Villian is cocky youngish Asian

Hero opens AKo in mp to $15 Villian 3bets on the button to $45 hero calls

Flop A82cc hero checks Villian bets $75 hero???
AK got 3bet flop Ace high Quote
12-17-2014 , 01:34 PM
im probably 4betting pf with the idea of getting stacks in if we get raised instead of flatting OOP.

as played im calling instead of folding out his air and worse aces
AK got 3bet flop Ace high Quote
12-17-2014 , 01:35 PM
I'm assuming this is 1/3 NL?

Is there any other dead money in the pot (i.e. did anyone else call your raise)? If there's lottsa other dead money, I might shove here against an aggrococky. Otherwise, it's kinda of a tricky situation because I'm not sure how calling OOP is going to be profitable here, as we're going to miss most flops and have to fold to his cbet.

As played, I would just let this guy hang himself and wouldn't bet a single street (calling any bets cuz obviously we're never folding with this SPR). If his next bet isn't an all-in (which it probably has to be), then I'd get it all-in there. If the turn checks thru I'd still check the river; he's always going to value bet his Ax, otherwise he might take one last shot at blowing us off an underpair / repping a hand, and it's unlikely he's going to pay off with worse than Ax.

GcluelessNLnoobG
AK got 3bet flop Ace high Quote
12-17-2014 , 01:43 PM
Do you have a club in your hand? If you have A K with a A 8 2 flop, the club doesn't scare you nearly as much.

Not sure this is a tough spot. Your options are to call or raise (and if you raise to decide how much to raise). In position I often flat-call here, but out of position I'd raise. Pot will be $240 after you call and you'll have $180 behind so I'd push all-in. You'll have a lot of posters that will say that an all-in push folds out worse hands and only gets called by better hands, but let's say you min-raise to $150:

Villain has AX (no two-pair). He has to call $75 with $315 in the pot. Plus you have $105 behind so he can win $420 if he hits two pair. He is getting 5.6 to 1 and is 15 to 1 to hit two pair. So a min-raise would be a good play against AX (no two-pair) assuming you are never folding to a shove.

Villain has clubs. As long as you raise the flop (don't flat-call), all of the chips should be going in the middle whether you min-raise or go all-in. If you go all-in he should call $180 with $420 in the pot (2.3 to 1) and he's about 2 to 1 to hit his flush. So it's +EV for you if he folds. If you min-raise it's a no brainer for him to call. You are shoving any turn so you pay him off if he hits the turn and if he doesn't he is facing a $105 bet into a
$495 pot (4.7 to 1) and he'd be 3.9 to 1 to hit his flush on the river so again it'd be +EV for you if he folded.

You could argue that a call might get more money out of hands like KK or QQ, but since you are not in position the hand will often go:

Hero calls $75

Turn:
Hero checks, Villain checks

River:
Hero bets $100, Villain folds

So you end up giving up two free cards that will cost you the $240 pot and the $180 you have behind when he catches an out. When he doesn't catch an out, you win the same $240 pot ($120 profit) you would have made when you raise the flop.
AK got 3bet flop Ace high Quote
12-17-2014 , 01:49 PM
Lets start with the basics:

What is your image? Is villain likely even paying attention?
What are the stakes? 1/2, 1/3, 2/5, 5/5?
How long have you seen the villain playing? Have you seen him 3bet before? Have you seen him open before? How is he handling his chips? How are they stacked? Who covers who?

We don't need all of these, but any of them might help for us to give you the best advice possible.

Next, which cards are the clubs? His possible gii in range changes based on what he can have. If the Ace isn't a club, do we have the Ace of clubs? What about the K?

In general, I'm never folding post flop here once I get there.
There's far too much money in the pot, and our hand is too strong vs and likely range, so folding here would be pretty bad baring some sort of sick run out.

If we call, we need to get $180 more into the pot which is a piece of cake if we expect him to bet the turn. If we don't expect him the bet the turn, I'm just going to click it back here to $150 and shove all turn cards. Might not shove clubs, but instead check/call as it can keep his range wider.
AK got 3bet flop Ace high Quote
12-17-2014 , 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch
Lets start with the basics:

What is your image? Is villain likely even paying attention?
What are the stakes? 1/2, 1/3, 2/5, 5/5?
How long have you seen the villain playing? Have you seen him 3bet before? Have you seen him open before? How is he handling his chips? How are they stacked? Who covers who?

We don't need all of these, but any of them might help for us to give you the best advice possible.

Next, which cards are the clubs? His possible gii in range changes based on what he can have. If the Ace isn't a club, do we have the Ace of clubs? What about the K?

In general, I'm never folding post flop here once I get there.
There's far too much money in the pot, and our hand is too strong vs and likely range, so folding here would be pretty bad baring some sort of sick run out.

If we call, we need to get $180 more into the pot which is a piece of cake if we expect him to bet the turn. If we don't expect him the bet the turn, I'm just going to click it back here to $150 and shove all turn cards. Might not shove clubs, but instead check/call as it can keep his range wider.
Stakes are 1/2 I've only been at the table a couple orbits no reads on him yet and i haven't played a hand yet. He did see me come down from 2/5 game when it broke. He covers me. I honestly don't remember the specific clubs.
AK got 3bet flop Ace high Quote
12-17-2014 , 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redrex003
Stakes are 1/2 I've only been at the table a couple orbits no reads on him yet and i haven't played a hand yet. He did see me come down from 2/5 game when it broke. He covers me. I honestly don't remember the specific clubs.
Backdoor flush draws are pretty important as they come in 4% of the time. You also take away an out from your opponent.

A K

vs

K Q

Flop:
A 8 2

KQc - 31%
AK - 69%

(2.225 to 1)

Swap the aces:

A K

vs

K Q

Flop:
A 8 2

KQc - 37%
AK - 63%

(1.7 to 1)

Big difference between 2.225 to 1 and 1.7 to 1. Also a big difference in how the hand plays. If you have the backdoor flush draw you still have equity if the turn comes with a club vs drawing dead without it.

If your opponent only has one club and you have the better club, you win if the backdoor flush draw comes (as opposed to losing).
AK got 3bet flop Ace high Quote
12-17-2014 , 02:18 PM
I like a call with the plan to gii on the turn.
AK got 3bet flop Ace high Quote
12-17-2014 , 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by paperboyNC
Backdoor flush draws are pretty important as they come in 4% of the time. You also take away an out from your opponent.
I think you have it backwards. If Villain's range is 2-pair, sets, and the NFD I think it's very very bad for us if we can look in our hand and be sure that he doesn't have the NFD.

Long story short: Blockers are a lot more important than runner-runner outs.
AK got 3bet flop Ace high Quote
12-17-2014 , 02:31 PM
^^ that's typically right, except this is "young cocky asian", gonna guess that OP is implying that his range is much wider than most
AK got 3bet flop Ace high Quote
12-17-2014 , 02:47 PM
He's got a billion flush draws in his range and maybe 1 set. If we have a club I'm fine with shoving now. Otherwise call and open shove all non club turns.

Edit: Basing this on our limited read of "Asian". AK, AQ are in his range as well, but I'm weighing him very heavily towards a pair+flush draw or just the NFD depending on actual board.
AK got 3bet flop Ace high Quote
12-17-2014 , 03:39 PM
Maybe I'm reading too much into "cocky youngish Asian", but I don't understand why we're not playing this as passively as possible postflop against his range which could be ATC-wide, no?

Gtiesneatlittlenoose,givestoopponentG
AK got 3bet flop Ace high Quote
12-17-2014 , 04:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redrex003
Villian is cocky youngish Asian
Quote:
Originally Posted by redrex003
no reads on him yet
what makes you say he's cocky but have no reads? I'm still 4betting even without any reads to a button squeeze from a young wide asian
AK got 3bet flop Ace high Quote
12-17-2014 , 04:10 PM
Last time a "young cocky Asian" sat down at my table, I got AA about three hands later. I raised, he re-raised, I called. I bet the flop and he went all in. I snapped and he left (unfortunately).

I got my read solely based on the way he looked/dressed and his demeanor.

I hope your villain is the same!
AK got 3bet flop Ace high Quote

      
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