Context is a 2-3 NL Holdem game. I am in for 100BB and villain is a LAG that has me covered. Full ring game. Sorry I lost track of the exact bets but here I go.

UTG limps and villain (LAG) opens for $12 UTG +1. I look down at AK Off and three bet to $36. Action fold back to LAG and LAG four bets to 150. I jam???

Should it always be a 5 bet or flat here? Would I flat with a tag, etc?

A common mistake which is made, especially against 'LAG' players, is underestimating just how tight we should be playing against early position raises, especially in a full ring game. Unless villain isn't positionally aware at all, we can pretty safely fold against their huge 4B. When facing a 4B of this size we can basically treat it as a jam, and as such we can fold anything which we don't want to GII with. In a UTG+1 4B situation, AKo actually doesn't fare very well.

Even in 6-max simulations, when LJ opens 3x, BU 3B to 9BB and LJ jams, BU should be folding AKo a decent amount of the time. When facing this action from an even earlier position our AKo becomes a clear fold.

Our position also matters here, a player would be more likely to 4B us with a bluff when we're on the BU as opposed to if we were UTG+2; although as noted earlier, even if we are in the BU position, AKo is still a theoretical fold here.

Flatting half your stack is silly. We need more info on villain. Has he 4b much? If all we know is that he’s lag I am stacking off

If villain made it $150 and you have $300 then fold or shove are the good options. Doesn't matter if villain is LAG or TAG at this point.

The question in this hand is what sort of LAG is villain. Against all but the worst you can fold AK to a 4 bet. Typically a LAG will open very wide and might 3 bet people light but 4 bets tend to be value.

This does mean occasionally you will be giving up to a bluff but the thing to remember is that you are not doing well against his range as a whole and AK can easily lose to random hands.

Against bad LAGs who are bluff 4 betting way too often then shoving sometimes is right. The only exception that I would always shove here is rare fishy LAGs that get irritated when you reraise. These LAGs get so upset when you don't fold to their action that they come back over the top with anything.

I can understand a shove there, but if it's me with only $36 in the pot and I think I can normally out play that raiser, I'm going to fold and look for a better opportunity.

I don't know what the odds of AK against all random hands, but he isn't doing this with a random hand. I'm a little behind hands he would shove with, like JJ or QQ and way behind KK+. If he has two lower SC, you're ahead 60/40, but if he is shoving with that, you'll have plenty of opportunities to stack him. If he has a kicker problem like AQs you're 70/30 and that's about the best you can hope for.

Not a spot to be walking back to Houston

I fold here unless I have strong evidence this guy likes to stack off seriously light. Note we flip against 99+/AQ+/AJs so this is a turbo fold vs. most live players.

If he's a maniac by live standards I rip.

Never calling.

Jamming can’t be terrible but I would usually find a fold. What’s your image? What position were you? Does he care about your image or is he just here to gamble?

I forgot to mention that I was somewhere in the lowjack or utg+3 position. He was a LAG that opened almost every three hands but might have 3bet once and never four bet. I shoved and he showed me aces in the hole.

Jamming can’t be terrible but I would usually find a fold. What’s your image? What position were you? Does he care about your image or is he just here to gamble?

I probably looked like a tag and he probably saw me as such. I think fold was the better play even though I would have been cringing afterward. Sorry the chat did not let me quote.

Can someone put this through a solver. Thanks. I plan on buying one soon.

Rip all day, vs. Live lag ak for 100bb is printing.

Just because we know the player is a wild LAG on the open doesn't mean we know anything about his game at the 4B. In all the games I play, I knew of one LAG who would 4B with less than AK and I haven't seen him play 2/5 in months. He dropped down to 1/2 and it's rare to see him at all.

Every 4B I see, no matter how loose the player might open, is KK+. Shoving with AK vs 4B is not printing money. Most situations the best you can hope for is coin flip vs JJ or QQ.

What position our we in? Has anyone else been doing some active 3betting after dead money, especially after a lag raises and gets some calls?

If we were like next to act I might just flat some of the time if an incoming 3bet going after the dead money will happen some of the time. That way I can backjam for stacks with good hand equity (which I'll realize) and good FE with huge dead money in the pot. Although this certainly risks it going very multiway for awkward low SPRs, so pick your poison (although I tend to lean towards passive play when there isn't significant dead money in the pot).

The later position I'm in, the more I might also consider just flatting, as a flat will still often isolate the raiser (or go 3ways with the limper, which isn't the end of the world). This is mainly because at 100bb stacks a 3bet sets up an awkward SPR where we'll often be left with like a PSB on the turn and A high. At like a 66bb stack (which is what I often play at) it is a more trivial 3bet as we can size to setup a flop shove.

What's our image? Cuz we just got 4bet in LLSNL. Is this guy laggy or insane? The less insane he is / the more nittier our image is, the more I think we should actually fold at this point.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Unless he's a complete mainiac, it's unusual to see 4Bets as anything other than KK+ at these stakes. As someone above says it's close, but given what you say about his 3bet and 4bet frequency, I probably default to a fold. The thing that might tilt me in the jam direction is if you've been 3-betting him a lot, and he has reason to believe you might be light.

Easy jam

How long have you played with him? This is one of the most important questions, because if it's only an hour or two, and he's only 3bet once and showed an ace, I would fold and not even think twice about it. He's betting half your stack and trying to commit you so It doesn't look like a bluff at face value but it would depend on more information.

Also have you've ever 3bet at his game at all (if not, more of a reason to fold) and was it shown down, and is he prepositionally aware (does he open tighter/less frequently from early position)? I'm not jamming blindly, not knowing more about him unless I know he's willing to turn his hand into a bluff for someone's stack. Lag's don't mean they're a maniac, it's too much of a generalized term to assume it's a snap jam.

You can fold or jam but never ever flatting here and almost always folding unless I know villain is extremely spewy. I think given what sizing he chose this is never AA. We also block AA and KK. So you would be jamming to chop or to be flipping at best.

I’m not sure. A lot of people use these terms but I don’t think that they fully grasp the meaning. There’s lots of players who are “LAGs” in the sense that they have a mammoth RFI, but then play mostly passively against aggressive action.


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Sure, if OP description of LAG is not accurate, then we can read into the lack of 4! and perhaps even sizing of $150 vs. other options as enough to consider fold.

But against the player described we should generally be inclined to get it in. Hero folding ak vs fishy opponents at low stakes for 100bb is not how you become a winning player.