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AK 4 Way AK 4 Way

01-13-2016 , 11:19 AM
Hi all.

Game is 2/4NL. Fishy table overall, many multiway pots.

Hero (SB) ($950) Overall been playing tight, just won a medium sized pot last hand.

Main Villian V1 (UTG+1) ($1000) Quite fishy, doesn't play every hand but i've seen him get sticky in pots . Called 70 bucks pre with A10o ealier.

5 or 6 limps to me in the SB with AK . I make it 37 (would like some input on this) had been getting sick of the multiway pots. I still got 3 callers.

Flop ($156)

A83

Hero leads $55. Was this too small? flop was very dry so I tried to target weaker aces and other 1 pair hands. V1 calls, others fold.

Turn ($266) J Hero bets $100. V1 tanks and calls.

River ($466) 8

Hero? Checks, villian bets $200.

All feedback appreciated.
AK 4 Way Quote
01-13-2016 , 11:27 AM
no problem with the flop bet. that board is almost as uncoordinated as you can get for an ace high flop.

turn, now the board gets coordinated and we don't want anyone hanging around. bomb it and bet 250.

as played, snap call and you are likely going to see some silly 8 in the V's hand, but 3:1 yo.
AK 4 Way Quote
01-13-2016 , 11:41 AM
Main Villian V1 (UTG+1) ($1000) Quite fishy, doesn't play every hand but i've seen him get sticky in pots . Called 70 bucks pre with A10o ealier.

Based on this description I am happy to play for stacks here

Bet 100 on flop and bet 275 on turn (folding to raise)

If turn is called shove river
AK 4 Way Quote
01-13-2016 , 11:49 AM
At this table with preflop action I would size it even bigger pre. ~$45-50, scaled from what I would normally size in this spot at 1/2.

Post-flop, especially against this villain, I would bet/fold all three streets, 1/2-2/3 pot.

AP I think river is kind of a tough spot. Is villain a true station that is never going for thinner value here with worse? There aren't any missed draws for him to be bluffing (why I wouldn't check/call river) and he can easily have AJ/8x.
AK 4 Way Quote
01-13-2016 , 12:06 PM
Fine pre. Anywhere from $35-40 is good. Bet more on the flop, at least $100. You should bet big enough to eliminate players while encouraging worse top pair hands to call. Bet again on the turn because your villain will call with worse Ax. Since you're oop deepstacked, a check on the turn isn't terrible.

Easy call on the river. You get 3.5:1 odds. You beat 16 AQ/AT combos and lose 14 combos of AJ/A8/88/33. I guess you can add 4 losing combos of a bizarrely played AA or JJ, even then you should clearly call. 8x is unlikely since he wouldn't have called with third pair on the turn. He couldn't have had 8x with a diamond draw.
AK 4 Way Quote
01-13-2016 , 07:18 PM
PF is fine. Maybe a bit bigger.

Flop is too small. Ax hands aren't exactly inelastic, but they'll certainly call more than 1/3 pot. $80-100 would be much better.

Turn is again on the smallish side. If you've seen V call $70 with ATo preflop, what makes you think he won't play hands similar to AT in this same manner when he connects?

Snap call the river. Would have preferred a b/f in the neighborhood of $275.
AK 4 Way Quote
01-13-2016 , 09:33 PM
Thanks for input all. I guess I was a bit afraid to build a massive pot with top pair in a 4 way pot but yeah should've bet bigger..
AK 4 Way Quote
01-14-2016 , 05:02 PM
PF raise is a good size, but after 3 callers you should adjust and make your raise size even larger for the next hand you play. Flop bet is good. It's a dry board and we're still multiway. If we bet larger and get raised we can't really know where we're at and are basically just forced to fold. Turn bet however needs to be twice as big. We're hu and the board is starting to get coordinated. AP river check is fine, but I'd prefer to bet smallish so a weak ace can't check into a cheap showdown. AP we want him to bet when we check and he gives us great odds to call. V could show up with some kind of a goofy 8, but also realize that Ax is no longer out kicked by AT and worse so V can go for thin value here.
AK 4 Way Quote
01-14-2016 , 05:35 PM
I think your bet sizes on flop and turn were too small. OTH, they may look just weak enough to induce a bet by a weaker ace on river. I tend to believe if V has AJ, he raises turn here to try to get more value out of hand. You're good here enough to justify this call I believe (3.3:1)
AK 4 Way Quote
01-14-2016 , 05:39 PM
River is an easy call. I expect A9/A10/AQ more often than AJ, and way more often than 8x.

I'm not loving it, but I'm comfortable calling.
AK 4 Way Quote
01-14-2016 , 05:44 PM
When the action gets back to you there is 36 dollars of dead money. When you only make it 37 everyone is getting good odds to call. I'd make it even larger 50-55. The flop bet I actually really like the sizing given the flop texture. There are basically no draws to speak of. The turn bet again I like the sizing. As for the river check I like it so long as we expect villan to bluff or value bet worse. If not then I prefer another 1/3 Psb.
AK 4 Way Quote
01-14-2016 , 05:45 PM
pre is ok, but I'd have made it a bit bigger.

Way too small on flop.
Way too small on turn.
Snap river.
V1 might even have A5 here.

Last edited by sewktbk; 01-14-2016 at 05:52 PM.
AK 4 Way Quote
01-14-2016 , 06:30 PM
Bet sizing is way small throughout against a sticky fish (and what appears to be a pretty sticky-fishy lineup overall). I'd make it $45 preflop as a minimum.

Ax is going to call $100 on the flop close to as often as it calls $55, and will call $200 on the turn quite often, while 8x, pocket pairs 99-JJ, and even random wheel draws will still call flop fairly often and sometimes call turn, depending on V's stickiness. You only need to get called ~1/2 as often with the $100/$200 betting line as the $55/$100 line -- fishy limp/callers have a lot of weak Ax in their ranges and hate hate hate to fold it ("How could I fold? I had a pair of aces!"), so against 4 opponents you can expect getting calls quite regularly.

Finally, the pot is already getting big by the flop and is multiway, so we still profit if the Vs fold 8x, 3x, and gutshots. These hands have ~20% equity against us, so we profit ~$30 if they fold the flop, and more if they call flop/fold the turn (~$35, assuming 1 call of $100/10% equity). We'd obviously prefer that they call/call, but but it's an additional consideration that leans in favor of bigger bet sizing.

On river, I think bet/fold>>>>check/fold>>check/call. I'm having a horrible time thinking of any weaker hand that V would value bet on the river (or bluff with), but he'll likely call with his Ax. 8x obviously has us beat (and he should have a fair amount of it after tank/calling the tiny turn bet), he shouldn't have many/any whiffed draws to bluff with, and I think he checks Ax behind like 90+% of the time.
AK 4 Way Quote
01-14-2016 , 09:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HansSprungfeld
8x obviously has us beat (and he should have a fair amount of it after tank/calling the tiny turn bet)
Tank calling with a possible 2nd or 3rd pair then betting the river is a hallmark play of a sticky low stakes fish. I know this, but I still keep calling their river bets and acting surprised when they are good.

This line is a random 8x at least 70% of the time (the rest being weakish Aces).
AK 4 Way Quote
01-14-2016 , 09:11 PM
More on every street. B/F the river.
AK 4 Way Quote
01-14-2016 , 10:44 PM
I like how you played it all the way to the river.

Although I don't like your River check here I instant call the $200.

I personally would have bet $150-200 on the river.
AK 4 Way Quote
01-14-2016 , 10:49 PM
I see that most replies suggest betting more but I actually think that a small $55 flop bet getting called tells me Villan doesn't have A8 but just an A (AQ, AJ, A10, A9)

You bet $100 on the turn and here I think Villan would raise with AJ so I think you are still good.
AK 4 Way Quote

      
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