Open Side Menu Go to the Top
FAQ Today's Posts Search Twitter Discord
Register
AA9 AK versus c/r AA9 AK versus c/r
Post Reply Subscribe
...
Page 2 of 2
First
Page 2 of 2
Go to page:
Go
1 2
Last
Go to page:
Go
Page 2 of 2
First
Page 2 of 2
Go to page:
Go
1 2
Last
Go to page:
Go
04-28-2022 , 09:18 PM
#26
browni3141
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By browni3141 Find Threads By browni3141
Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 5,678
Pretty pumped to get raised on the flop. It's a trivial call/call. C-bet is too big. Prefer $20 at the most.
AA9 AK versus c/r Quote
04-29-2022 , 08:44 AM
#27
Vecissitude
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By Vecissitude Find Threads By Vecissitude
journeyman
Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Playbig2000
It's less than a psb but these decisions are usually made when we call the c/r otf (why would he wanna c/r A9 or 99 here anyway? Most players would probably wanna get stacks in on later streets).

If he limped with jacks then it's a slam dunk call, but if he just flatted a raise with jacks yeah I would be alil more concerned but I would hate to fold otr.
They are afraid of getting sucked out on, which can happen and they also know they will probably never fold if they know they are beat. For example Q or K on river and V moves all in. So better protect the hand now.
AA9 AK versus c/r Quote
04-29-2022 , 08:54 AM
#28
Vecissitude
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By Vecissitude Find Threads By Vecissitude
journeyman
Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCloud
This post reaks of shiwboating. Even against the nittiest of nits, this is a call all day every day. You will never win long-term mucking this hand in this spot. Anyone who finds a fold here is scared money.

Sometimes you're going to get coolered. The fact that you didn't here is impressive but over the long-term ridiculously -EV.
This is typical elitist I read a poker book once and I remember some of the jargon listen to me! Maybe Hero did not have enough reads to make this play. But if anyone plays live for any significant amount of time, the OMC type still exist at these tables and every room has one or several. OMC does not c/r AQ here, mostly flats AK for deception, and raises 99 for protection.

Against this range you are calling praying you split or suck out, that is the -EV play.
AA9 AK versus c/r Quote
04-29-2022 , 09:04 AM
#29
ChaosInEquilibrium
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By ChaosInEquilibrium Find Threads By ChaosInEquilibrium
veteran
Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 3,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vecissitude
This is typical elitist I read a poker book once and I remember some of the jargon listen to me! Maybe Hero did not have enough reads to make this play. But if anyone plays live for any significant amount of time, the OMC type still exist at these tables and every room has one or several. OMC does not c/r AQ here, mostly flats AK for deception, and raises 99 for protection.

Against this range you are calling praying you split or suck out, that is the -EV play.
V is not an OMC he’s a MAWG.

There are people who play passive preflop and aggro post. There are people who view AQ (4th nuts) as a strong hand on AA9, and if they have a strong hand they raise — they just play their hand.

There are all sorts of people who might raise AQ here and none of Hero’s reads eliminate the possibility that V is that type. That’s why folding is a -EV play.
AA9 AK versus c/r Quote
04-29-2022 , 09:14 AM
#30
madlex
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By madlex Find Threads By madlex
Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 17,967
FWIW, I don’t think villain even needs to have AQ in his range to make the turn profitable? For better than 3:1 with 6 combos of AK for the split the call should be +EV assuming A9s is dead.

That said I don’t think discussing a hand like this offers much value. If we know from playing 1000000 hands with villain that he raises only every 221 hands preflop and has shown down AA every single time, that’s a pretty easy fold on the AAKK turn after the flop checked through. Would that make for an interesting spot to analyze in depth?
AA9 AK versus c/r Quote
04-29-2022 , 09:31 AM
#31
Vecissitude
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By Vecissitude Find Threads By Vecissitude
journeyman
Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by madlex
FWIW, I don’t think villain even needs to have AQ in his range to make the turn profitable? For better than 3:1 with 6 combos of AK for the split the call should be +EV assuming A9s is dead.

That said I don’t think discussing a hand like this offers much value. If we know from playing 1000000 hands with villain that he raises only every 221 hands preflop and has shown down AA every single time, that’s a pretty easy fold on the AAKK turn after the flop checked through. Would that make for an interesting spot to analyze in depth?
Well, it is 3 combos of AK we split 4 combos of AQ we beat and 3 combos of 99 we are crushed by. If we believe AQ makes this move calling is slightly +EV, if we believe V never makes this move with AQ and flats a lot of AK then it is a pretty big -EV. So yeah not super interesting as I agree to make this play against V after not seeing that many cards is a bit much but honestly it is close enough either way.

There is one guy at my club though who in 3 years I have never seen him 3-bet anything other than AA or KK, against that guy I would fold AK here.
AA9 AK versus c/r Quote
04-29-2022 , 09:46 AM
#32
madlex
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By madlex Find Threads By madlex
Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 17,967
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vecissitude
Well, it is 3 combos of AK we split 4 combos of AQ we beat and 3 combos of 99 we are crushed by.
Obviously, my bad.
AA9 AK versus c/r Quote
04-29-2022 , 09:48 AM
#33
ChaosInEquilibrium
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By ChaosInEquilibrium Find Threads By ChaosInEquilibrium
veteran
Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 3,361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vecissitude
Well, it is 3 combos of AK we split 4 combos of AQ we beat and 3 combos of 99 we are crushed by. If we believe AQ makes this move calling is slightly +EV, if we believe V never makes this move with AQ and flats a lot of AK then it is a pretty big -EV. So yeah not super interesting as I agree to make this play against V after not seeing that many cards is a bit much but honestly it is close enough either way.

There is one guy at my club though who in 3 years I have never seen him 3-bet anything other than AA or KK, against that guy I would fold AK here.
The bolded is false. It’s a +$20 EV call versus {99,AK}. Versus {99, AQ} it’s plus hundreds of dollars EV, not slightly +EV like you said.

You may be neglecting to consider we have 15% equity versus 99? A mistake I made at first as well.
AA9 AK versus c/r Quote
04-29-2022 , 10:00 AM
#34
ChaosInEquilibrium
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By ChaosInEquilibrium Find Threads By ChaosInEquilibrium
veteran
Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 3,361
Versus {AK,99} (3 combos of each):

After we call turn:

Half the time we win 15% of a $1000 pot for $150 EV

Half the time we chop a $1000 pot for $500 EV

Our average take from the final pot is $650/2=$325.

But we had to pay $300 on turn to continue playing the game, so the net EV of turn call is $325-$300=$25.
AA9 AK versus c/r Quote
04-29-2022 , 10:02 AM
#35
Vecissitude
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By Vecissitude Find Threads By Vecissitude
journeyman
Join Date: Mar 2019 Posts: 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaosInEquilibrium
The bolded is false. It’s a +$20 EV call versus {99,AK}. Versus {99, AQ} it’s plus hundreds of dollars EV, not slightly +EV like you said.

You may be neglecting to consider we have 15% equity versus 99? A mistake I made at first as well.
Yeah i guess it is plus ev but slightly blows my mind AK has 35% equity against AK,99.
AA9 AK versus c/r Quote
04-29-2022 , 10:10 AM
#36
ChaosInEquilibrium
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By ChaosInEquilibrium Find Threads By ChaosInEquilibrium
veteran
Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 3,361
Yeah, if it’s half dead half chop our equity is 25%
But if it’s half 15% equity and half chop our equity is (15+50)/2=32.5%
AA9 AK versus c/r Quote
04-29-2022 , 12:19 PM
#37
Joe-exotic69
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By Joe-exotic69 Find Threads By Joe-exotic69
old hand
Join Date: Apr 2020 Posts: 1,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vecissitude
This is typical elitist I read a poker book once and I remember some of the jargon listen to me! Maybe Hero did not have enough reads to make this play. But if anyone plays live for any significant amount of time, the OMC type still exist at these tables and every room has one or several. OMC does not c/r AQ here, mostly flats AK for deception, and raises 99 for protection.

Against this range you are calling praying you split or suck out, that is the -EV play.
What makes you think V is a omc? Because he flats JJ pre? Rofl no one at 1/3 live 3bets JJ pre so he is just population. And 1/3 live population raises any A on AA9r because they suck and that’s how we make money from them.

Unless op left out something about vilain, i dont know how this fold can ever be profitable.
AA9 AK versus c/r Quote
04-29-2022 , 12:28 PM
#38
JayKon's Avatar
JayKon
View Profile Send Message Find Posts By JayKon Find Threads By JayKon
Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe-exotic69
What makes you think V is a omc? Because he flats JJ pre? Rofl no one at 1/3 live 3bets JJ pre so he is just population. And 1/3 live population raises any A on AA9r because they suck and that’s how we make money from them.

Unless op left out something about vilain, i dont know how this fold can ever be profitable.
I know a handful of winning 1/3 players that will 3-bet 99+/KQs+ preflop and one guy that will 3-bet JTs+. It comes down to stack sizes, knowing something about your players and therefore when to do it.
AA9 AK versus c/r Quote
Page 2 of 2
First
Page 2 of 2
Go to page:
Go
1 2
Last
Go to page:
Go
Post Reply Subscribe
...
Page 2 of 2
First
Page 2 of 2
Go to page:
Go
1 2
Last
Go to page:
Go
      
Feedback is used for internal purposes. LEARN MORE
Contact Us Privacy Statement TOS
Top
Powered by:  Hand2Note
Copyright ©2008-2022, Hand2Note Interactive LTD
m