1-2 NL, 9 handed, Villain started with 100 now has ~225 I cover. Table has been playing tight-passive/ limpy. Villain playing aggressive and seems competent and views Hero as TAG who hasn't got out of line yet.

Villain(UTG) calls $2, Hero [As,Ac] (UTG+1) raise to $12, UTG+2 calls, all fold...

Villain(UTG) raises to 50$, Hero?

options: Shove, min 4-bet, smoothcall

I put villain on (JJ+, AKs). Discuss

I vote smooth call. They'll be 100 in the middle and he'll have 175 left so getting the rest in post flop shouldn't be difficult.

Smooth call. Re-raising turns your hand face up and we don't want to give him the opportunity to make a big laydown. I wouldn't be too worried about the player behind you calling although we should want him to...let the villian hang himself on the flop

I think I'd need more information on UTG+2 before I could feel 100% comfortable flatting the limp/RR by villain. Who knows what the third player might trail along with?

That said, I do lean more toward just flatting here and letting villain take a post-flop lead with ATC and getting all the money in at that point. Villain is repping the very hand that you have and a 4-bet here would turn your hand face up and probably kill any future value. Let him hang himself.

A lot of people are going to say re-raise here. If you think a lot of his range here is AK I would do just that because people who do this will be able to convince themselves they're flipping against you.

But I've found that a lot of players even at 1/2, especially somewhat competent ones, can find folds in that situation with JJ and even QQ.

I flat here and then c/r most flops. He is likely going to bet $75ish on most flops if checked to and will be committed when you shove.

lol looks like i was wrong about the re-raise camp ^^

Flat. Get it in on the flop.

I have position

damn my bad. still flat for sure

I didn't notice the player behind you but I still vote flat. If you were any deeper I'd vote raise.

Game is playing shallow in most spots (50-100BB) such that players aren't really calling big 3-bets with that wide of a range. lets say UTG+2 had $150 eff

i make it $75 on top. leaves him with $100 and pretty much pot committed, plus i dont see him folding for $75 more, he will at least see a flop and call.

if we just flat and he has something like JJ or QQ we risk a flop of K x x coming out and getting less action because he'll be able to get away from it. now if we make a raise pre he will almost always call us with QQ or JJ and chances are he will stack off on K x x flops anyway for only $100 more, and if he decides to fold to the flop all in, we still gain $75 more by raising pre.

he can also have AK, i still think he has JJ+ though. raise/get it in, do not slow play here there's no reason to.

Raising 75 on top will be viewed as the same as going all in.( $125 total he has $225 to start). I was debating min raising to induce shove from his range or keep him in.
Let's say he folds JJ preflop to a shove and folds QQ half the time and calls with KK and AKs. Are we really missing that much value from JJ,QQ (when flop is Kxx or Axx) Given that they're folding pre a lot to our shove anyway?
feels like there's more value to smoothing and letting JJ,QQ go broke on low flops. Only thing is we may lose value from AKs on a whiffed flop that would call all in pre sometimes. (sometimes A or K flop and we stack him on flop too)

I ~min 4bet to about $90. If he calls he's pretty much pot committed.

With flat: JJ/AK even QQ leaves him too vulnerable to overcard/missed flop and he escapes.

(Villain dependent) Limp UTG 3betting is almost always guarenteed monster hand. I don't think I've ever seen JJ played this way, rarely AK. Maybe QQ but by far most likely hand he has is KK. Raise now to get him pot commited before flop spoils something

Are we sure about that? Even a bad player in a 1/2 game will immediately put someone on AA or KK to a 4-bet pre-flop. Any raise here, even a ~min raise, is going to send off alarms to everyone at the table.

This player limp/RR'd with the intention of this being his "big hand o' the night" - this is not a pure bluff - and since villain has to act first-post flop he's almost certainly going to c-bet most or all of his stack regardless of what the flop brings. Even if he has AK.

WAT? You need more information to feel comfortable with AA? And who cares about the 3rd player. More than likely he's not coming along, but if he does more monies for us. I hope he comes along.

I smooth call here. Dont bet/3b AA, especially when we have position (lol we got 3bet while we have AA IP... Dream!). This is the easiest smooth evar. Get it in on flop. Profit. Ez game.

My decision would be based partly upon what UTG+2, behind you, did.

Two way pot is better than a three way. 67% to 80%, I think.

vast majority of 1/2 players here will stack off with JJ+ AK.

i still like raising to $125, 1/2 players for the greater part have no sense of stack sizes and pot odds etc, so they will still flat with JJ and QQ for $75 more even though they only have $100 behind.

Meh flatting has its merits as already posted. But it also has some disadvantages too... Villains range JJ+/AK and air here, so what do we do if a J, Q or K flops and the villain shoves? All those cards plus A are scare cards for the villain too so it might just go check/fold too.

Flatting also lets villain #2 talk himself into calling.

An alternate line is to ship it. This will look a lot more like a AK or mid PP to villain #1 which he should look you up with his range. It closes the door on villain #2 which may or may not be a good thing.

So AI > Flat but its close and will depend on rather you feel that villain #1 is going to believe you have AK and not AA and how you think he will play with a scare card on the board.

This is the only problem you truly have, if he has say JJ or QQ and the flop comes Kxx. You hate to scare him away. I think with AK he's shoving alot of flops because he'll level himself into thinking he is deceiving you.

BTW, Can I have this hand please?

The only flop I dont want to see is exactly KQJ. I dont care if there is a flop of K,Q,or J xx. I am calling any shove. If we dont like to play post flop then just shove pre and hope to hold. We are put in a dream scenario here, take advantage of it.

I disagree. I think villain will fold everything except for KK. Our image is tight and have not gotten out of line. Every once in a while we might get a spaz from QQ or JJ, but villain is going to be able to fold these alot easier pre than post.

My point is that I want UTG+3 in the hand! If a 4-bet runs him out, that's a bad play...

Ok good. I guess I read it wrong. I want 3rd player in all day.

I just don't see many doing that with $175 stacks to start the hands. Maybe my games are just tighter.

+1