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A9s otb, facing flop donk from relative unknown A9s otb, facing flop donk from relative unknown

12-18-2012 , 01:04 AM
I'm new to the table, maybe 20 hands or so.

Table: When I sat down the first hand i witnessed was the 8 seat 3! for 30BB or so, and snap calling an all in from the 5 seat (SB at the time) for ~135BB with JJ.
The SB is known reg, and on the tighter side preflop, but that might not be known at the table. This leads me to believe the table might be playing loose, since I know the reg wasn't getting out of line.
In the next 20 hands, I saw a number of 11-13$ opens getting called by 2-5 players, confirming what I already felt.
I have only played one hand up to this point, I raised pre flop to 14$, got one caller, bet the flop IP, bet the turn, and bet 3/4 my stack on the river as a bluff, and gave the old 'If you out flopped me, congratulations' speech, and villain folded top pair face up.
Villain has been involved in at least 6 pots so far.

Preflop:
3 limpers
(btn) Hero (225$): Raises to 17$ with A9
Villain (300+) calls
BB folds
3 limpers call

Flop: (82$) J6J
SB leads out for 27$ (!?)
3 Folds
Hero: ?..

This smells like a J at worst, but it might be a flush draw leading out. I haven't discounted the idea that he had 66 for a flopped house. He might also bet out with any pocket pair, repping a J, hoping I can fold a large portion of my range.
The sizing is so small he doesn't look like he's scared of letting anyone draw to the flush, and I'm getting almost direct pot odds to call here to hit. I'm not sure if I want to bloat the pot on a paired board, but we can't just lay down our hand either, can we?
A9s otb, facing flop donk from relative unknown Quote
12-18-2012 , 02:49 AM
I'd just flat. Raising seems a bit spewy and will put you in an awkward spot if he shoves given stack sizes.
A9s otb, facing flop donk from relative unknown Quote
12-18-2012 , 02:56 AM
Call. His range is wide and includes a lot of pairs (6X or pocket) "betting to see where I'm at." You're not getting any more money out of those hands if you hit, but you can float them on most turns, so bet turn whether you hit or not.

Range also includes a lot of worse FDs trying to set a price, and you own them. You may be forced to play for stacks on a paired board if FD comes in, but it's worth it.

Range includes very little Jx, imo, as most of these guys who will go AI with JJ pre will also bet this flop big with a J as they feel compelled to overcharge the FDs. Still, if he should decide to donk a decent bet or c/r on a blank turn, this likelihood increases greatly, and we should probably fold.
A9s otb, facing flop donk from relative unknown Quote
12-18-2012 , 11:53 AM
call,

what happened next
A9s otb, facing flop donk from relative unknown Quote
12-18-2012 , 12:29 PM
I'd much rather just overlimp preflop (it's not even close, imo). I want to keep in all dominated flush draws, not possibly fold them out. At loose/passively tables there's also a decent chance that huge dominating Ax hands are also just limp/calling (or worse, limp/reraising). Plus at loose tables there's a decent chance we end up going 5+ ways to the flop (in which case best hand wins, and we're unlikely to end up with that hand). The end result is horrible. All we've done is created a big bloated multiway pot with a small SPR, and this hand sucks in this situation. If we're going to take the alternate route and raise here, the goal has to be to steal all the money now or get it HU in position where a cbet will be profitable; we're obviously never accomplishing that at this table with these conditions.

SB leading into the world is a little scary. I'm really lost as to how much FE we might have here. I think I would just flat. We're getting good odds, plus flatting might get us a free card on the turn (which I think I would take). A high might actually even be good enough to check down to showdown if given the chance.

GcluelessNLnoobG
A9s otb, facing flop donk from relative unknown Quote
12-18-2012 , 12:36 PM
Raise/call. Usually underpair here
A9s otb, facing flop donk from relative unknown Quote
12-18-2012 , 01:30 PM
Whoa, there'll be plenty of time for raising if Vil has a legitimate hand. If not & he's trying to "see where his 77 - TT is at," we're going to win later in hand anyway (and likely get exactly one more bet/call out of him).

What would we raise to ? Any raise commits us right now, with extremely little info on SB's range.

If we call, there's ~ 125 in pot & 200 left in our stack. We're heads up IP, with a 40% draw to the most-likely nuts. We can play a medium-sized pot, or a big pot without having to ship & pray.
A9s otb, facing flop donk from relative unknown Quote
12-18-2012 , 01:37 PM
91.
A9s otb, facing flop donk from relative unknown Quote
12-18-2012 , 01:38 PM
Or we can realise our bluff equity so we don't have to make a hand.
A9s otb, facing flop donk from relative unknown Quote
12-18-2012 , 04:43 PM
And we fold or flip (down 40/60) if we get reraised OTF then ? No thanks.
A9s otb, facing flop donk from relative unknown Quote
12-18-2012 , 05:08 PM
No we are obv never raise/folding. We raise so we can have fold equity. We would also be a fav with two overs and a flush draw here if they did have a underpair. We must embrace and allow variance to happen or we are not bluffing enough.
A9s otb, facing flop donk from relative unknown Quote
12-18-2012 , 05:54 PM
Preflop:
3 limpers
(btn) Hero (225$): Raises to 17$ with A9
Villain (300+) calls
BB folds
3 limpers call

Flop: (82$) J6J
SB leads out for 27$ (!?)
3 Folds
Hero: Calls

Turn: (136$) 8
SB: Leads out for 40$
Hero: Call / ship?

I'm not sure if I'm getting called by a worse hand here if a raise, so that seems foolish, and I'm certainly not folding now that I've hit my card.
Call and see what happens on the river or just ship it now?
I feel like his river check call/range is bigger than his turn bet/call range.
(Mostly any hand that has a J in it, and possible some very small flushes that might fold to turn aggression, but would call a value bet on the river.)
A9s otb, facing flop donk from relative unknown Quote
12-18-2012 , 06:05 PM
I'd probably ship it at this point. Thanks to us creating the bloated pot preflop, there's no way we'll ever be able to fold. There's also a decent amount of scare cards (another , J, 6, 8, etc.) that could totally kill the action. If he manages to fold a Jx or a baby flush, good for him; most people won't.
A9s otb, facing flop donk from relative unknown Quote
12-18-2012 , 09:54 PM
Must raise for value here, both for the price of his call and also to set up an easy river ship. I go just over min and make it $90. I doubt he'll be able to fold with anything other than air, esp as we are staying under the magic $100 barrier. If he does fold, you weren't getting any more out of him anyway. Shipping's fine to, but I think he finds a fold too ofter. Calling is lame.
A9s otb, facing flop donk from relative unknown Quote
12-19-2012 , 12:37 AM
I also like just calling pre flop... Suited aces are one of the few hands I don't mind playing multi way in limed pots.

His 1/3 pot bet into a multi way pot is a week one pair type hand, thats my read. sure it might be a small flush, and maybe he's a tricky idiot with a big hand...so be it if he is I hopefully already got those readds.
1
If I call the pot 140 ish and I have 190 behind...I just raise here, and yes any raise commits me so, I raise the amount that I think looks stonges..all in fine, a smaller riase may look stronger like 100 might be better.
A9s otb, facing flop donk from relative unknown Quote
12-19-2012 , 02:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
I go just over min and make it $90.
was thinking the same
A9s otb, facing flop donk from relative unknown Quote
12-19-2012 , 03:27 AM
i like the call on the flop, now ship turn
A9s otb, facing flop donk from relative unknown Quote

      
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