$1/2 mid afternoon. Super OMC looking table - we are talking about the senior circuit here and literally the convo is (and I am not kidding) if anyone can get it up anymore. One comment was "I wish I was 60 again" ... you get the point.

V1 - BB only person at the table that looks he may be in his 20s and wearing headphones. Saw a limp-call, then lead a flop with $15-20 bet and took it. Dont really remember the board. Stack - north of $250 at minimum. Not in my notes though and may have more.

V2 - UTG. 50s to early 60s. Seems tight but really no reads. Limped a couple of hands I saw and scooped like $10 or some small pot with 3rd or 4th pair after endless limps then checks to the river. Small stack - around $100.

Late MP - Hero - Looks younger than I am or at least told so. Sadly though not that young anymore. Just sat down with $300 and this is my 3rd hand at the table.

Hero has A5hh

BB posts $2
UTG limps
Folds to hero
Hero raises to $10
Folds
BB calls
UTG calls

Pot is $26 after rake.
Flop is AJ6 rainbow.
BB checks
UTG checks
Hero bets $20
BB calls
UTG calls

I assuming that A probably doesn't hit either or that have a weak kicker so I would semi-bluff here. I am not going crazy with a 5 kicker though. Also a J may come along for the ride or some straight draws. Seeing both call was not in the plan - though maybe I should reconsider that.

Pot is $86
Turn is T and second suit not mine.
BB checks
UTG checks
Hero checks

Does anyone continue here? If checked to on the river I am probably betting. But otherwise I dont think with this card I am getting 3 streets of value.

Pot is $86
River is A. no flush.
Final Board is AJ6TA no flush. Hero has AAAJT.

BB leads for $40
UTG calls for $40

Are we ever good here? It is $40 to win $186.

I can see BB betting an odd J or even A-rag thinking I didnt bet the turn so I dont have an A. I think if BB flopped a set we hear from him earlier. UTG could easily be calling with a J or T and if he has some sort of AJ/AT FH is raising the river. But his call leads me to think he more likely has A rag which eliminates BB from an A. So I am chopping with a lot of A-junk that UTG may have and beating his J/T. Obv they cannot both have an A. Both played so passive I am not sure where I am. Even a chop is $40 to win $70.

I never overplay a small A knowing A7 doesnt fold enough etc. I think it is maybe a call given pots odds or fold and never a raise. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

You're calling for a two-way chop here. One of them has the other ace, and it's entirely possible that its also an ace-rag.

Question is what the hell the other one has. Best-case is that BB has JQ/JK/QQ/KK, and UTG has the case ace. Also entirely possible that one of them has KQ.

I think this is a call. If it was a larger bet, I could find a fold. You need to chop 40% of the time to show a profit (pot will be $206 with your call, not $186). I think that's just about break-even.

your never folding here in 89 years. omc can have a pair,pp, 2 pair, an ace.. BB can have a bunch of stuff we beat as well as an ace.

call, worse is not calling a raise to 100 on this board

As an emeritus member of the OMC club, we don't think you have an A here.

We might have our own Ax, but if we had AT or AJ or AQ we wouldn't be checking the turn.

An A might be good 40% of the time, chopping 30% of the time, and dead meat the other 30% of the time at worst, YMMV.

It's a crying call for me.

Grunch:
Raise is fine pre.
Flop is way too big.
You really think OMC is calling with worse here often enough?
I don't.

Turn check is good.
River is a fold imo.
You should be chopping at best most of the time given the flop sizing and two calls

Not much strength shown so far. I think it's likely we are chopping with one of the villains. I like a shove here; give em a chance to make a mistake by folding the chopping hand. Maybe they find a nitty fold with a straight (even better). This is assuming they can't hand read; this line doesn't really make sense, but if we are chopping, we may as well put them to the test.

If they slowplayed a set here, GG us. The action from both players really doesn't look like that though. I think BB would have led the turn or bet bigger on the river. Utg having a full house is almost out of the question.

as an alternate line, consider checking flop behind. This turns on the "he doesn't have an ace" light just as much, just a street earlier. We're not worried about protecting our hand (it's not worth protecting, really), so giving a free card isn't a concern.

Easy call. Bb can be bluffing omc assuming you are done with the hand. Omc bluff catching. Obv that's the best case. But there should be some chops too overall for it to be a profitable call.

What size would you bet on the flop? $15?

oh god check the flop

pre is fine, limp behind is fine too, but on this type of table you are getting l/c by AJ and stuff so it's less enticing. Still, it's fine.

Flop like really just check it what are you doing. If you do bet bet smaller.

River eh, obv they can't both have A. Raise is pretty cool if you have better reads. I'm guessing bettor has A and other guy has J so you're no good.

Assuming bettor has at least ace, we chop with a9, a8, a7, a5, a4, a3, a2. We lose to ak, aq, aj, at, a6, jj, tt, 66. So 27 chop combos and 26 lose combos. We are putting 40 to win 63. If my math is correct, then shouldn't it be a call?

Yeah I didn't say it's a fold I just mean you're no good a lot of times.

Thanks to everyone.

I didnt have any real reads having just sat down.

Preflop - I would limp this a lot but at this table it seemed like some aggression especially early in my session would be better image and limp/folding when I miss.

On the flop - I can see a check or bet. I don't think $20 is really out of line and I don't mind it esp early in a session. I want to control the bet sizing and let people know money is going into the pot when I am in a hand. I am not an aggro donk blindly putting $50 into the pot on the flop but hopefully that makes sense. So if the pot is still relatively small I don't mind splashing/spewing a bit to keep pressure and image going. I.e $5 extra on this bet is worth it. Also preflop I started smaller here b/c I just sat down and it seemed like an especially nitty table. But my preflop opening is generally $12-15 so my kind of default c-bet is around $20. Maybe I need to consider that but I dont think it is a huge leak.

Turn - I am mostly giving up. I don't think my A has much more than showdown value. I am not paying off a monster nor playing for stacks with A5.

River - Ehhh worst card. I tanked for about 1min and folded. I dont beat much and the chop isnt worth it. My showdown value is tanking and raising/shoving is suicide (to whomever suggested that).

results:
BB - Had JJ (btw the young guy with earphones.... I was not ultimately shocked that he turned out to be pretty weak passive and not very good at all)

UTG - mucked

What's the point of a cbet here? They're going to play almost perfectly against it. No hands we're ahead of have more than 5 outs, there are no made hands from which we can get multiple streets of value, and no hands we're behind are ever folding. (Barreling off here to try to get relative unknowns at 1/2 to fold stronger Ax would be pretty spewy.) OTOH, if we check behind, we look super weak, and are more likely to get value from worse on the turn or river.

We can quibble about cbet sizing in this spot, but the bigger concern for me is the fundamentals about why cbetting is profitable, or in this case, why it isn't.

I agree except for "they play it perfectly" :-)

I could get behind a check on the flop and basically call down Turn/River if it makes sense. But this is a nitty table and I do not want to rely on most likely weak players to bet for me. Also this was literally my 3rd hand (maybe 4th) at the table and I would rather continue my "He must have AK" story.

I think a cbet gets through a lot here - as I described it as a semi-bluff. Preflop ranges include a lot if not all SC, most one gappers and a bunch if High card low card hands and even occasional junk like 84soooted may limp call and all fold to a cbet. Even small/medium PP fold once the A hits. I think an A9 may fold especially to a second bet either on the turn or river and I am prepared to bet the river. Otherwise I call some river donk bets if I think Jx doesnt believe me b/c of a check on the turn.

My plan was check back (or fold to donk) on every turn card except for an A or 5. Once I was called 2 ways I am mostly check/folding just about everything. My river plan was then an evaluate situation depending on runout and/or donk bets.

But it's not a semibluff, because it works as a bluff ~0% of the time. When they're folding, they're folding correctly against our hand. The only benefit is that we avoid letting hands with 4-5 outs see a free turn. If Villains have trash like 84s/Q2s in their ranges, that's an argument for checking, not for betting, because they have virtually zero equity in the pot and may give us a street of value later in the hand.

When I say they "play almost perfectly against it," I don't mean that they're doing it at all for the right reasons, or that they're even thinking much about why they're calling or folding. I just mean if they play their hands totally passively and straightforward the way most people do at 1/2, they're going to end up making substantial mistakes against A5 very rarely. For the most part, they're going to fold when way behind and call when way ahead.

fair points

Too much of your justification for making plays hinges on how it affects your image. Maybe making money in your card room is as simple as:

1) Make everyone think you're a bluffy donk

2) Get dealt the nuts

3) Profit

But the best way to make money is to take the line that nets you the highest expected value in every hand you're involved in.

As for postflop, the flop is waaaaaay too early to turn a pair of aces into a bluff. You probably have the best hand. Figure out how to maximize value against split pair, Jx and air, and betting $20 isn't going to do that. Usually you start turning top pair into a bluff after you've already faced several bets and crap.