That’s the thing…they do call you down.

KQo is much more like KJo than AKo, and KJ is definitely a fold UTG. In general offsuit high card hands don't play great OOP in multiway pots.

In this case since you are UTG, even when you make TP2K, you will STILL be at the bottom of your value range (which will include AK/AQ, AA, KK/QQ, typically at least 1 other set on the board, and potentially combo draws). if you have a bdfd it will be to a 4flush and will rarely be the nuts. as a result you will almost always have to play defensively even when you flop well.

When 3b pre, you should mostly fold and occasionally 4b (with a read or randomizer). in those instances you do 4b KQo and get called, you can end up getting much more stuck than you would with hands like JTs, A5s, or med pairs that you might 4b bluff with.

Overall, it's not a 100% open or fold UTG 9 handed, and in games that go multiway or see 3bets often, I'm happy folding it. it's basically never a fist bump, slam dunk UTG open regardless of table conditions. also note that a 7 handed table plays 5 or 6 handed MUCH more often than a 9 handed table does, and having 2-4 fewer players does fundamentally alter opening ranges.

if you're doing it for the meta, I don't see why you can't accomplish the same thing by opening more suited hands and getting more board coverage. ultimately the argument here is about the frequency you are opening rather than the strength of a given opening hand. if that's the case, then playability should trump absolute hand strength (unless you can legitimately 4bet KQ for value relatively often).

Are you suggesting to play more middling suited connectors?

Yeah, they are calling that too. Especially if I check the turn on a relatively safe board. If you're getting to show down with AK on a K high board with your hand being good, they didn't just call with KQ. And if they folded before, then does it really matter that you had KQ or AK?

By "calling down" I assumed you meant getting called down on every street. If you're mixing in checks on some streets and getting two postflop streets sometimes, fair enough.

GcluelesscallingdownnoobG

Was ok.

I was referring to this sentiment:

If the reason to open KQ is not the EV of the hand, then it's because of the frequency that you are opening. If you want to open UTG at a frequency >8.5% (KQo is a top 8.5% hand) then I think it's better to open suited hands that will play better multiway rather than offsuit broadways (for the reasons stated). This can include middle connectors, Ax/Kx/Qx suiteds, etc. You can also include smaller PPs as well if you're not already.

Theoretically you should be getting a lot of credit on K hi and A hi boards when you open UTG/EP. I play in some pretty good action games in TX and have found this to be the case, so KQo becomes a RIO hand at a full ring game because you only get multi-street big bet action when you're beat (or folds), bc they are already giving you credit for AK/AQ/KQ. If they're going to fold worse and continue with better than KQ then I don't actually need to have KQo to get the same return from the hand.

The games I play in tend to also have a good amount of 3bet pots and 3b pots that go multiway with deep stacks. I tend to be the most active 3bettor (or one of the most) in those games. As a result I don't want KQo in my default UTG open range because it's easier to get felted with it than to felt someone else from UTG.

Are there players who will call down for 200 BB stacks with any Ax/Kx when they make top pair? Yes, absolutely. And in those cases, sure open KQo UTG. But that's an adjustment, not a default strategy. This may also depend on stakes, bc KQ is def a better open at 1/2 than 2/5 or 2/5/10 imo.

The only adjustment you should even consider making in this game is to just open less KQo, not eliminate it. That's only if you're somehow convinced that there it's even worth sweating over considering you're talking about a game where calling ranges are brutal, and you're rarely 3b pre as UTG opener. I mean, I just cannot imagine how KQo has us playing -ev full lines in these games.

WHYYY????

KQo is not an auto-open UTG in a 9 handed game, especially against unknowns.

I don’t think BB is supposed to post his BB in this world