Loose passive table

V is on my immediate right. Two hands vs him:

1) UTG shoves $36, V ($700) calls, H ($400) 3b to $100 next to act with AKcc, folds to V who folds AQhh face up

2) Limped pot, Hero has Q4ss in BB. Flop ($12): Q73ss, V check/calls H's $12 bet
($36): 5s, V check/calls $25
($86): Kd, V check/calls $55 with J9ss

Weird passive guy I assume.

450-$460 eff 3 limps V makes it $13 in SB

H looks down at 74hh in BB (trashy hand obv)


H snap mucked, and V cbet $40 into $52 in a 4 way pot on 754r and took it down with 99.

Looking back, should I call pre getting >40:1?


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No.

You are not getting 40:1. You are getting 1.7:1 with a complete trash hand against a Passive V who is now being aggressive, thus also giving you a lot of RIOs. Turbo muck. 40:1 is only your IOs if you flop the nuts and he can't get away. As your hand basically can't make the nuts, this is a no brainer fold.

In before lock.

Textbook example of results-oriented thinking.

Not getting 40:1 obviously but I'd call because passive V already turned his hand over before the flop. 99 probably absolute bottom of his SB raising range.

...and let's not forget the 3 limpers behind who can all make life difficult for us by raising any bet we call from the SB. Marginal would describe this situation HU if SB didn't want to chop; with 3 players behind it is orders of magnitude worse.

Nobody is making life difficult at 1/2, especially people that limp pre.

Meant implied odds obv. With suited one gappers needing ~35:1, >40:1 with suited two gappers doesn't seem okay in position? We're facing a limp/rr at this table about never.


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Sure they are. We flop a straight draw/flush draw, SB bets, we call, one of the three limp/callers flops a set/two pair (which are the cards we need to connect with) and raises and we are forced to fold. Happens all the time.

I am actually ok with a call with a hand like this at these depths (not often but maybe once or twice per 10 hours of play)...
1) to advertise being loose and if you think you have a tight image...you must show the hand no matter what, even if you are folding to action. Call me scummy but I'm inadvertently exposing my cards if I made this play, AND
2) if the players in the hand are sticky.

If you flop the world against sticky players, you aren't often in a cooler situation except maybe flush over flush. Most of the pairs out there are bigger than the 7 and you have blockers to the set vs. two pair. You can't play this against players who won't shovel $800 into the pot with TPTK.

So play some poker

I am - I'm folding and waiting for the dozen or so opportunities you get per session to play a SC or SG in late position.

So you're folding in spots where you already know what the PFR has 225bb deep just because there are bad players behind you in position? I'm not...

What?

I'm pretty sure OP meant after everyone folded then villain flipped his hand and showed 99. Pretty sure you can't play a multiway pot with somebody's cards exposed.

I think playing dog**** hands because 'tight image' is poor tactics and often simply an excuse to get involved in more pots just because we're bored.

IMO the correct adjustment would be to factor increased fold equity (against villains who will be adjusting against us) into our decisions and therefore make more bluffs. That way our adjustment makes money instead of losing money.

I think you mean looking forward.

As far as I can tell, stuff like this doesn't even happen once a session. The answer is it probably doesn't matter. If you had the button it's probably OK.

You're only a 72.5:27.5 favorite OTF, and the problem with weird connectors is that lots of times the board texture makes it very hard to extract. I muck stuff like like KT suited and even KQ suited, PF, if I'm convinced I'm dominated and villain shows nittiness over a large sample.

If I play KT suited against AT and the flop comes KT7 I might win one PSB. I do better against AK there, but they're equally likely. It's a parlay in a way that 77 isn't.

With suited trash, the "fishes schooling" theory is pertinent. It doesn't hurt to swim with the fishes sometimes and give yourself a new and different perspective on the game. Sklansky and Miller also discuss these types of plays in NLHT&P, re. doing stuff solely for the purpose of disguise/camouflage.

As already mentioned, RIO is an issue with all trash hands.

The tighter his raising range, the more i like a call, but the main things I don't like about this spot are our relative position to the preflop raiser and our absolute position relative to the field.

Implied odds doesn't equal stack size/bet size.

You already have an indication that the villain can recognize that he's likely beat and can fold a decent hand. He's not going to blindly pay you off with TP. Therefore, you don't have the implied odds to call with this hand.

Even if you are a results orientated thinker, the second an overcard comes to his nines, he was going to slow down with second pair. The odds on the turn of an overcard coming is well over 50%. You weren't getting paid.

V told everyone he had a pair when he raised from SB. Most 1/2 players only raise pairs from SB. Easy game

only call if you know you're flopping 2pair+ ldo

So what do you do if the flop is 974r? What if it's QJ5dd? Just because you know V has a good pair doesn't mean that you outflop him enough to make it worth it, get paid enough when you do outflop him, or don't face huge RIO in situations in which you can gii.

I will call here sometimes, but that's only because calling is more fun than folding. I recognize it's a leak, and if I were a better player or when I'm playing well I fold.

40:1? Please show the math on this.


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If the flop is 974 I give him all the money because it's a cooler when his range is mostly TT+. If the flop is QJ5dd I fold. 225bb is deep enough to call and see what happens. You guys are some massive nits.

yup trashy hand so fold.

only fish are results oriented, don't swim with the fish.

The most problematic flops for this hand are generally going to be spots where we flop a draw like 65x or two hearts and villain cbets flop and we have a whole gang of players behind us left to act.