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5bet or fold?

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03-13-2015 , 11:01 AM

jbrady85

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 149

2/5 at Parx.

V is 30ish white male w 1500-1700 and seems to be a reg.
Folds to the V on the button who raises to 25. SB folds. I reraised to 80 out of 520 total. V insta-raises to 220. I tanked and then went all in. Don't think I can call that 220 have to either fold or go all in. What do you think my range for each should be?

Spoiler:

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03-13-2015 , 11:13 AM

johnny_on_the_spot

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2013 Posts: 11,651

If you were playing online, AQo would be in my standard 5bet bluff range from a blind

Live, I'm not 5 betting it without a history that the V is 4 betting me wide.

As a default live, I assume Vs 4 bets are {KK+}, until otherwise proven wrong.

As such, my 5 bet range will be {KK+} until I have a better idea of their playing style

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03-13-2015 , 12:18 PM

cAmmAndo

The Situation

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,729

V never folding any of his 4! Value range 100 bb deep so unless he's 4! Lite your crushed here by AA, AK or KK usually.

Last edited by cAmmAndo; 03-13-2015 at 12:31 PM.

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03-13-2015 , 12:54 PM

mikko

veteran

Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 2,863

Kk+, this is live. She can never fold here.

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03-13-2015 , 12:56 PM

DeepStack bMAC

grinder

Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 475

Harder call without history but even at 2/5 there aren't many willing to 4b with less than KK. So I prob fold anything other than KK and maybe even fold that against some v's here. That's super nitty but live players are so one dimensional that even with KK they'll flat your 3b "in case the ace flops". Id say in the situation at live 2/5 v has AA 75% KK 25% and 5% AK. Incredibly easy fold for AQ. Online is different but live cash tables are usually easy to read.

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03-13-2015 , 01:14 PM

Willyoman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 10,468

Fold to the 4-bet. At best (JJ+, AQ+), you're a 2:1 dog. You have no fold equity, so you're basically calling villain's all-in here. You're getting 600:440, which is like 1.4:1. Not even close.

I would stack off with QQ+, AK. JJ is a sigh fold, AQ is a snap fold.

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03-13-2015 , 01:31 PM

Sebastes Pinneger

adept

Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 721

Fold to the 4.

AQ is never good here and needs miracle run-out against KK+

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03-13-2015 , 01:34 PM

kb coolman

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 5,452

This is a pretty clear fold, and I'm kinda meh on the 3bet without an exceptional history with this V. It's high variance, but not horrible I guess. But he's folding 0% of his 4! range to your shove at 100BB.

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03-13-2015 , 02:29 PM

bobman0330

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 24,234

A $25 button open is potentially a sizing tell too.

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03-13-2015 , 02:37 PM

#10

tmacTheorySSAnne

old hand

Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 1,264

Seems like v knows you understand his range is wider otb and is exploiting that

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03-13-2015 , 02:40 PM

#11

Cbrewer4

adept

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 750

Horrible to 5b AQ live

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03-13-2015 , 03:02 PM

#12

QuadJ

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 6,265

The 3 bet is fine. Folded to button, villain could be raising with anything. When villain 4 bets to half your stack it's a trivial fold. Without some history of bluffing wars between you, even QQ is a fold at that point.

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03-13-2015 , 05:38 PM

#13

eyurus

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 598

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuadJ

+1.

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03-13-2015 , 08:03 PM

#14

Playbig2000

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,614

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cbrewer4

Horrible to 5b AQ live

+ .95

there are times to 5bet if certain dynamics are happening which does not happen that often but this was definitely not one of them.

fold to the 5bet ainec at all

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03-13-2015 , 08:58 PM

#15

Letmewin1

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 376

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuadJ

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03-13-2015 , 09:11 PM

#16

trucdouf

veteran

Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 2,216

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuadJ

This.

+1 for playing Parx though.

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03-13-2015 , 10:43 PM

#17

venice10

Referee

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 25,897

3bet is fine to test him. When he responds "I love my hand" it is an easy fold with your hand. Agree that at worst this is KK.

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03-14-2015 , 12:02 AM

#18

progress

adept

Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 1,108

100 bb in preflop w AQ in live game no good 95% of the time

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03-14-2015 , 12:24 AM

#19

troloyolo

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 613

Idk about at worst Kk, but Aq can probably fold with this sizing. I doubt hes ever folding or lighter than TT AK

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03-14-2015 , 11:08 AM

#20

OSUTexan

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 1,210

Without more info on V or history of playing a hyperLAG style...this is live....folding anything but KK+ to a 4 bet.

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03-14-2015 , 11:12 AM

#21

Willyoman

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 10,468

Yeah by the way guys, I really doubt this is KK+.

What do you think he's doing with AK? QQ?

I'd say at the strongest, it's QQ+, AK.

JJ is debatable.

I mean, he open raised from BTN and you put in a 3-bet from the blinds.

I don't get why people think he's so incredibly tight and that this is never AK.

He's not folding AK or QQ to your 3-bet. You think he flats with AK or QQ? Naaaaaah.

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03-14-2015 , 11:39 AM

#22

daniel9861

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 3,389

No one ever really 4bet bluffs at 2/5 and at the same time no one really folds playable hands to 3bets in position so 3bet/fold pre looks best. And because we don't expect 4bet bluffs and not all AK will gii pre a proper stack off range should be KK+.

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03-14-2015 , 10:04 PM

#23

haha_TP

grinder

Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 561

Where I play, I've never seen a 4 bet that wasn't aces.

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