If you don't care about variance then call. This play is clearly -EV. Someone stated villain has two pair I doubt it. Even fish lay down two pair in this spot.

I don't think he ever does this pair+fd/straightdraw combos because he would want to keep you in the pot for odds/he has no fold equity against short stack. If he were to shove a hand you have beat here, I think it would be 44 or 99.

^ QT / Q9 / 9T also ?

You cannot make a cbet without being the PFR. Your repeated misuse of the word is confusing, and it would behoove you to use it properly so that you can get the most out of discussing hands with other players. Your flop bet is called a lead or, more popularly with the internet kids, a donk bet.

People are not advocating checking the flop because they are afraid of your hand not being good. It is to control the size of the pot and gain information. Just because you check does not mean you fold, and if it does, than you are easily exploitable by even the fishiest players. IMO: c/c > c/f > b/f

Also, it's not accurate to say that it is highly likely that somebody has a Q before any action has taken place. More often than not, neither player has a Q.

No way.. Imo, it takes a special kind of fish to stuff 2pair on this board 3 way. If villain were such a fish, you never would've posted this hand.

lol'd


isn't it common knowledge that 'betting for information' is a total load of bs and completely illogical?

really? raising 6x in early position? means rarely a KK or a Q?... it certainly doesn't mean AJ/AT... the only hand that misses the flop really is AK... even QJ, some fish will raise 6x.. and that hits... i'd say its >50% 3-handed that someone hits.

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it's f'ing hard having to switch between fish-speak and 2p2/internet player speak during the hands... dam lol liveaments.

I was in a similar spot as this in a $5/$10 game last week. I flopped top set on a mono tone board and I ended up folding it on the flop. You have shown strength on two streets and villain still shoves. Not only that but another one called. I hate folding a set as much as anyone else, but you need to fold here. You are behind and you aren't getting the right odds to call.

Right, but we're talking about checking for information, which is totally different. It's gives you relative position...A quick Google search yields a surprisingly decent description here.

just because I feel nitpicky...

You shouldn't be using 2p2 speak during hands EVER, NEVER EVER NEVER. Your job is to sound like a drooler. However, when analyzing hands away from the table, you need to be able to communicate more precisely (which live players are notoriously bad at).

A perfect example is your Qx comment. You are really confusing when you say things like "highly likely someone has a Q" and "someone hits Q94ss more than X%", when you really mean "someone has {Qx, KK, AA, 99, 44} X% of the time". All three statements are worlds apart from each other.

I completely disagree with this statement. Especially fishy player are calling with almost any suited cards. There was a 7x PFR, it's more likely that this will fold out hands such as KT, KJ, QT, JT, but rarely will it fold out any of those hands if they're suited from bad players. Also suited connectors will still come alone a large portion of the time as well as Ax suited.

I would make the opposite argument, that since it's much more likely that people are playing suited cards preflop with a 7x raise/call and you have an all-in/call you can fold here pretty comfortably. Aside from a lower set - which is very unlikely - your equity isn't great against anything.

As far as going South, you shouldn't do that. Just play $1/$3 if you aren't comfortable playing deep stacked yet.

A lot of what I was going to say has pretty much already been said here, but I'll just highlight a couple of points.

1. Don't go south. If you're not comfortable playing 200+ blinds deep, just leave. It may not be against the etiquette of your particular room, but in 99.9 percent of the casinos it is, and I guarantee if you tried that in Vegas if the room doesn't kick your ass, someone at the table will.

2. Don't ever, ever speak poker strategy at the table. I mean, holy hell, if you went to a pickup basketball game and you saw the other guys diagramming backdoor pick-and-roll plays, would you stay in that game for fun? There's a poster in HSNL, limon, who basically says, "as a winning poker player, you're the casino for the losing players. They pay to have fun, so entertain them." Talk to them about the pro team on their sweater, or ask them what's going on this weekend... but don't ask if you would have 3bet JJ on the button from an MP raise.

3. What's "standard" online is anything but in the casino. 6x EP raises, calling with only $30 behind in a $200 pot, being minraised on every play... to just say "live players suck lolz easy money" is a good way to burn through money. They do suck, but not like online losing players suck. There was a thread here recently where someone basically said you could take a table full of winning 25nl regs and most of them would lose at $1/$2 live. I don't think that's entirely true, but there is an element of it in there.

I've already said that I'll most likely just start coloring up a lot more to $100 and $500 chips to make my physical stack seem smaller.... it's more of a psychological thing for me.

I haven't read any of the posts so far but is this game 3-handed? Or is it a button-blind-blind situation? maybe none of the above? If it is 3 handed or a but(or co)-blind-blind squeezing is an option to pick up the dead money.

As played, I don't hate the flop donkbet since it's a pretty drawy board so we pick up some value from flushdraws and probably gutshot-overs combos. Turn completes the spades and it really seems like villain 2 has you crushed. I don't mind a turn bet since you still pick up value from a hand like QxJs and combo draws like that but obv fold on a non-pairing spade river and 4 to straight river against villain2. Since they both went all in and it's 475 to 1500 you're basically getting direct odds to redraw to a fullhouse and god knows you could be ahead occasionally (but doubtful). 3:1 are the odds we need and that's what's being laid (we need like 22.5% equity)

people dont know how to read either. were not getting 3:1, were getting 2:1 just look at the stack sizes. OP dont put i have to call 475 to win a pot of 1575 or w/e the extra 475 doesnt get calculated in and its obv confusing the hell out of people.

were never ahead both players here, sometimes ahead of one, and its not likely to be the guy with the larger stack imo. getting 2:1 on the entire pot would make this a fold, and even more so since its multiway, with the larger stack the one whos most likely to have us crushed

Just to be clear, you think fish are opening 6x with QJ utg, but not AJ?

Squeezing here is spew. There is no dead money in the pot.