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500NL, facing 3bet AI on dry board, am I committed? 500NL, facing 3bet AI on dry board, am I committed?

03-10-2011 , 05:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fournines
I'm trying to figure out how I could've gotten away from that hand post-flop (if played differently, w/o my ******ed flop raise). I don't see anything wrong with calling the cbet with TPTK, but maybe if he leads heavy on the turn after such a dry flop, he has to know that I have a strong Q. So if I know that he knows...
I think you can fold to the pot size bet. He's betting into two players. If he bets 2/3 or whatever, that is an ez call. But, you add up the factors--UTG, 8x raise, pot size flop bet--that tells you a call means you are all in by the river. AA and KK are within his range. I would just fold flop, seriously, and there are plenty of times I am much less inclined to fold than most of the good players in this forum.
500NL, facing 3bet AI on dry board, am I committed? Quote
03-14-2011 , 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymond
I think you can fold to the pot size bet. He's betting into two players. If he bets 2/3 or whatever, that is an ez call. But, you add up the factors--UTG, 8x raise, pot size flop bet--that tells you a call means you are all in by the river. AA and KK are within his range. I would just fold flop, seriously, and there are plenty of times I am much less inclined to fold than most of the good players in this forum.
Great point. I should've asked myself if I'm comfortable dumping ~700 in with TPTK by the end of this hand. It sucks to call a raise then fold TPTK, but that doesn't mean I should compound the first mistake (calling pre)
500NL, facing 3bet AI on dry board, am I committed? Quote
03-14-2011 , 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by venice10
AQo is one of Doyle's trouble hands. He claims to have lost more money with that hand than any other hand. The best way to lose money with it is to call. If you think the raiser is raising light, then 3bet it. If not, it is like 64o to me, just muck it.

Spoiler:
Actually I'll take that back, I'd rather have 64o and call than to call with AQo
If you think he's raising light, 3bet the 64o and the AQo. If you think not, fold the AQo. At least if you 3bet the 64, you wouldn't risk levelling yourself into calling a 4bet.

8xBB is a huge raise. That seems wild, even by 2 5 standards. Is that raise size standard in your game?
500NL, facing 3bet AI on dry board, am I committed? Quote
03-14-2011 , 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maskk
If you think he's raising light, 3bet the 64o and the AQo. If you think not, fold the AQo. At least if you 3bet the 64, you wouldn't risk levelling yourself into calling a 4bet.

8xBB is a huge raise. That seems wild, even by 2 5 standards. Is that raise size standard in your game?
A 7bb or 8bb raise is common with NITs. Other then that I just stay out of the way of the nits. Idk why they raise so much. 4bb is a good enough raise. Shidd I might raise it 3bb UTG.
500NL, facing 3bet AI on dry board, am I committed? Quote
03-15-2011 , 05:59 AM
NG.

This hand is a complete mess. Fold pre, he almost never has AJ. He could have a lower pp, but is he going to spew his stack into you when you hit TP? Prob not. If you suspect he's raising light - which I highly doubt - then 3bet him.

What position is the villain in? Have we seen him raise light before? Have we seen him cbet PSBs into multiple people with air?

As played: Ok we made a bad preflop call but hit a good flop. Villain leads for $125 and now we have to re evaluate the hand... Have we seen him raise light before? Have we seen him cbet PSBs into multiple people with air? Would he fire here with AK? If he's going to fire here with AK, he probably won't call a raise so we really can't raise for value. We can only call and reevaluate on the turn.
However, since you described villain as standard TAG I'm going to assume he's smart enough to not fire the flop ever with pairs below a Q and also not firing such a huge bet into multiple people with AK because he likely knows that someone will not be folding a Q.
The correct flop play is to fold given that villain is probably not betting AK this large into multiple people and that's the only hand we beat. We don't want to compound our bad preflop call with a flop spew or stack off with TPTK.

As played, we min raise and villain jams. This narrows his range ever further. We are almost certain he now has AA or KK (prob KK). It costs us $420 to win the $1045 in the pot. We are getting about 2.5:1 on our money. Best case scenario is that villain has KK and our A is live. We would need 4:1 on our money for this to be break ever if villain could only have KK. Factor in that he could also have AA and we need 5.25:1 to make the call. If you think he is 3bet bluffing with AK here 100% of the time he has AK then you can comfortably call. Otherwise this flop is a fold after getting 3bet also.
500NL, facing 3bet AI on dry board, am I committed? Quote
03-15-2011 , 07:34 AM
I think you are beat here, I would only raise this flop if I had history and was trying to induce a shove from a straight draw, AK or a weaker Q. You basically commited yourself by raising the flop even after villian has taken an extremely strong line on a dry board. I think you have to call the flop raise all-in but I wouldnt be happy about it.
500NL, facing 3bet AI on dry board, am I committed? Quote
03-15-2011 , 03:23 PM
I dont feel like doing all the math for you. Sorry.

But now that you have stepped in the pile of xxxx, just stove out a range of KK AA for villain, compare equity with price ur getting, and just see if its worth trying to drawout. I doubt it, even though we have dumped a ton of our stack into the pot. Thats a hard error to overcome.

If the villain never has an air range here, its pretty close to a flop fold.
500NL, facing 3bet AI on dry board, am I committed? Quote
03-15-2011 , 03:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fournines
I'm not a big math guy so I don't know how many times I have to chop there (or miraculously catch my two outer) for the $380 into $880.
You are calling $380 to win $1000.

You need 27.5% equity to call.

Quote:
Board: Qh 5c 2s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 28.671% 09.91% 18.76% 1570 2971.50 { AsQd }
Hand 1: 71.329% 52.57% 18.76% 8327 2971.50 { QQ+, AQs, AQo }
Quote:
Board: Qh 5c 2s
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 16.101% 15.86% 00.24% 1570 24.00 { AsQd }
Hand 1: 83.899% 83.66% 00.24% 8282 24.00 { QQ+ }
500NL, facing 3bet AI on dry board, am I committed? Quote

      
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