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5/5 w/  straddle, tough turn decision vs rec player 5/5 w/  straddle, tough turn decision vs rec player

05-02-2013 , 01:35 AM
SB - 425
BB - 1k
UTG Straddle - I cover

folds to SB who calls 5 more, BB also calls 5 more, i raise to 35 in position from the straddle with AJo, and they both call.

($105) Flop: Ah 5h 6c

they both check, I bet 65, SB calls, BB folds.

($235) Turn: Ah 5h 6c Td

SB checks, I bet 135, SB snap shoves for 195 more. Hero???

SB is typical recreational player w/ a lot of leaks (overplays big hands, can't value bet thin, poor hand reader, etc.) and not very creative. roughly a year ago, i saw him play a hand where he punted off w/ 88 on A high flop.. but that is not standard for him by any means. haven't seen him do anything out of ordinary tonight so far....
5/5 w/  straddle, tough turn decision vs rec player Quote
05-02-2013 , 02:31 AM
This is probably the toughest decision of the hands you posted.

I call, just because the price is too good.

In all these hands it seems like this is a good, loose/passive-ish game that you've been playing in. Because of this I would make an argument for being less balanced with your c-bet frequency and also betting more with your good hands. I could see betting 65 into 105 at 2 players on this textured board if I was also betting this with air a lot, but in this kind of game I probably wouldn't, so I would just bet more when I did have it (same concept applies on turn I think).

It's super unbalanced and exploitable, I know, but I just don't know how much I'm worried about that in this game like this against a recreational player.
5/5 w/  straddle, tough turn decision vs rec player Quote
05-02-2013 , 02:42 AM
yeah it's a game where pretty much everyone knows each other, usually plays pretty loose/passive but there are some wild cards and a few tough players.

so why aren't you betting this flop a lot in this type of game?

i usually am betting this flop with air a ton so i think 65 is a decent sizing. then again, i dont have any problems betting bigger for value tho as his calling range seems pretty inelastic. (for this reason i often do bet slightly bigger in this spot with AK or 66.)

Last edited by The Face; 05-02-2013 at 02:49 AM.
5/5 w/  straddle, tough turn decision vs rec player Quote
05-02-2013 , 02:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Face
i dont have any problems betting bigger for value tho as his calling range seems pretty inelastic.
^^This, and...I'm still gonna c-bet a decent % of the time, but definitely less than I would HU or against a reg/pro. Esp when the recreational player only has 4x pot.
5/5 w/  straddle, tough turn decision vs rec player Quote
05-02-2013 , 03:07 AM
eh, even 3 handed i still dont mind barreling this flop with a high frequency, hoping to get called by a weaker Ax that had just limped in as typical live player does.

against a reg/pro, i also cbet this flop more than my fair share bc i depolarize my cbetting range on A high boards vs thinking players to avoid playing hands face up (like checking back QQ type hands seems face up). I am frequently checking back hands like small suited aces and medium offsuit aces tho.

And again the rec player having 4x pot is another green light for a cbet in my eyes. Ace high flops are good boards to cbet but bad boards to double barrel lend themselves to 1 and done stabs at the pot. So since the player is short, i should be more inclined to cbet board textures that are conducive to 1 and done stabs (Axx, K52r). whereas 722r i would check vs short stacks a lot and cbet all the time vs regular stacks bc they have enough chips to fold to future barrels on over cards.

so yeah interested in your thoughts

Last edited by The Face; 05-02-2013 at 03:22 AM.
5/5 w/  straddle, tough turn decision vs rec player Quote
05-02-2013 , 04:04 AM
That's a good point. So good in fact, I kind of like checking back turn now with your hand, as your hand totally looks like '1 and done' stab hand, and he has a little over a PSB left. You can comfortably call most river bets/shoves, and shove if he checks.
5/5 w/  straddle, tough turn decision vs rec player Quote
05-02-2013 , 04:12 AM
yeah checking back turn is interesting. only problem is it may be difficult to get all the money in on the river if he checks again. i was going to comfortably shove all bricks on the river if he calls turn. but i think i lose value from FDs + SDs by checking back turn. i think shoving turn is > checking back actually.
5/5 w/  straddle, tough turn decision vs rec player Quote
05-02-2013 , 08:28 AM
You're thinking about folding getting almost 4to1 when the shortstacked fish could easily be deciding to ship his T9hh type hand. Do you realize how terrible that would be ?
Can't see him having a flopped set/2pr often enough for justifying ever folding here. Fish just hate giving free cards.
He could potentially have as weak as A2 here.

Never underestimate the spazz factor when getting such odds because while folding incorrectly costs a ton of money, calling can never be that bad.
5/5 w/  straddle, tough turn decision vs rec player Quote
05-02-2013 , 08:54 AM
Easiest call ever.
5/5 w/  straddle, tough turn decision vs rec player Quote
05-02-2013 , 08:57 AM
And not c-betting this flop this shallow and without significant aggrospazz history from the others would be ridic.
5/5 w/  straddle, tough turn decision vs rec player Quote
05-02-2013 , 02:07 PM
Probably a call but not the easiest call ever
5/5 w/  straddle, tough turn decision vs rec player Quote
05-02-2013 , 02:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by andees10
Probably a call but not the easiest call ever
+1
5/5 w/  straddle, tough turn decision vs rec player Quote
05-02-2013 , 04:53 PM
C'mon, it's pretty easy. I know not every rec player raises every ace when checked to in the SB, and the ace on the board is a heart. OP doesn't give his image, but a lot of rec players don't believe straddle raises. This guy has "a lot of leaks" 42BB deep. While if he sucks he might not realize suited cards never have enough IO 42BB deep, if he sucks he might also might c/r or jam pre tourney-style with 66 or 55 with the BB still to act.

AA, AK, AQ, TT -- virtually never.
AT -- possible but discounted (say 6).
55, 66 -- slightly discounted (say 5).
A6 (s?), A5(s?), 56s -- possible (say 11).



KhTh, QhTh, JhTh, Th9h, Th8h, 9h8h, 8h7h, 9h7h, 4h3h, 4h2h, 8h6h, 7h6h -- all squarely in his range (12).
43s, 78s -- possible (say 4).
Random other mismatched heart draws, esp. with a T or 6 -- possible but somewhat discounted (say 4).
Random worse ace, spazz with gutter or air -- possible but discounted (say 4 conservatively).

Even if he plays half of the draws fast OTF, it's still a call all day absent a supernit image or tell.

Beluga Whale Theorum just tough to follow when 42BB deep.
5/5 w/  straddle, tough turn decision vs rec player Quote

      
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