Hero is TAG image but +1 just arrived at table so does not know this. Has about $450

+1 just arrived at table but just got stacked and seems to be looking to gamble. Rebought for $500.

MP2 and CO covers. No reads on them.

Preflop: Hero (BB) dealt TT
UTG straddles $10, +1 raises $45, MP2 calls, CO calls, hero ?

Calling is usually standard for me but we just barely have odds given the large raise forced by the straddle.

But wondering if we can raise here. If so, what's our plan? b/c, b/f, or if called what boards are we looking to shove on?

Without reads on any of the villains I like calling. You could 3-bet, of course, but if I'm 3-betting I want reads on my villains. Without reads you risk getting yourself into a tricky spot, whether someone 4! shoves preflop, or whether you'll be OOP in a big pot post flop.

That being said, it's nonetheless a really nice spot to squeeze preflop, lots of money in the pot -- if I 3-bet here I'm really just happy for everyone to fold and pick up the money. If I'm doing this I would raise to something like 150-200, leaving a pot size bet behind if you get called. But then you have to know what to do, what kinds of flops you should be shoving on and etc., and to know this you need to know who's in the pot with you (i.e. you need reads on your villain).

If you don't know +1, for example -- say he calls, flop comes Axx -- what then? You're OOP, with no way of knowing whether to shove, x/call, or x/fold. In a vacuum I'd probably be shoving MOST flops, but regardless, without reads I would be just flatting preflop and set mining/maybe playing the hand if I end up with an overpair on the flop.

With no reads any option is OK and folding is probably best by a small margin. Folding is fine OOP with marginal odds, calling to set mine with all of that money is OK and raising to $200 with all of that dead money is also tolerable.

If you call your looking for a set, even an over pair is not a big hand though you should probably bet/fold if you do flop an over pair heads up. If you raise you need to shove most flops because you have no idea of ranges but if it goes multiway just give up if you get an ace high flop.

W/o reads I just call. You'd have to raise more than a third of your stack (almost half), and I don't want to do that and have to fold pre against unknowns with TT.

Lol at folding. If +1 is as spewy as you say he is, 3b to $170 and gii with him. Telling us the hand he got stacked in would help a lot.

It's high variance - but I like a 3bet/call on this spot.

Lot's of dead money and you (and maybe other players) have +1 on potentially gambly mood. It'd be hard to fold to a 4bet/push and you'd have to reconcile yourself to the fact that you'd likely be flipping (against 88+ and any two broadway).

The other route is just to let it go and learn more about how +1 is playing.

Why fold? We got 45bb, we got an albeit thin read that villain might be a bit wider than usual, we got 15bb of dead money in there and have tt. Imo very nice spot to either 3bet/call it off or just shove, potsize raise would be more than half our stack anyway.

Id happily gii here.

Personally, I don't want to flip for 100bb w/ TT against players I know nothing about. With any reads that told me it was a good idea, I'd happily do it. Someone who "seems to be looking to gamble" doesn't quite do it for me. We don't even know why OP thinks that. And we know nothing about the other two.

Exactly. And we're out of position. Bad position and break-even odds are not a recipe for profit.

This is a fold/raise spot. Calling is humongous leak

Raising seems ambitious. We don't know what kind of ranges will call us since we don't know the players. We could end up crushed, or we could end up racing against a loose player calling with any two broadways. Neither sounds awesome.

Getting stacks in on the flop seems dubious, since there is a huge chance an overcard flops, which will either kill our action from underpairs, or hit our opponent and put us way behind. We'll be out of position, flying blind against unknown ranges.

I just don't see a recipe for stacking off here without a set. And we don't have great odds to chase a set.

Fold

Humongous? The odds are a bit better than break even, 45 to win 450 in our stack + 90 of dead money if it gets heads up after the flop, plus we have 3 with us in the pot so if we hit our set we have a decent chance of getting some action, plus some times we'll win the hand without a set/there's little postflop action and so on--

Calling isn't that bad. I can't argue for certain that it's good, MAYBE -EV, but if we're actually trying to quantify it -- it's not THAT -EV, even in the worst of cases (that I can think of, anyway). It's not a humongous leak. It's maybe a smallish leak. But honestly I think it's marginal, and I still think calling is going to be slightly +EV. Raising is probably not much better or worse, but it's higher variance, and I like to know my villains before going for high variance spots. Or more precisely -- raising in this spot wouldn't be such a high variance play IF you knew you're villains better. Given all this, folding is fine. Meh. I'm still calling.

Yes

Our equity goes to crap after the flop and I doubt anyone who is loose enough to call here is disciplined enough to adhere to the 'no set no bet' rule when the flop comes 5,8,9.

So alot of the time when you just call, you're going to continue putting money in OOP, on a dynamic board, against a bunch of players. Not the way to make money.

And even if you adhere to the 'no set no bet' rule, you're still in a spot that is just barely break even, or slightly +EV, assuming you win a stack every time you make a set.

so it appears it wasn't as clear as I had thought. Thanks for all the feedback and I'm glad it provoked some discussion

I ended up raising to 245 and calling a shove from +1 with AK. A came right in the window

I was ahead but could have saved some money just calling and folding flop


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You put in more than half your stack pre-flop and then folded?

Calling would have saved you some money, but that doesn't mean it was profitable.

No, I meant I raised, +1 shoved and I called all in preflop before the A came on the flop. I had no chance to fold lol

Don't worry, your first post was pretty clear Raising was definitely an option. Very glad you didn't raise/fold. I just don't like raising here vs. unknowns, although you ended up having the best of it, if slightly, before the cards came. Sorry he binked.

I'm fine with your line. Gambler money can vanish quickly. Sometimes you need to make educated assumptions. Nicely played.

LOLwut? You do realize we have TT here, right? Shoving here is +EV, so folding is out of the question. The only question is whether flat, 3b to $175-$200, or shove is the best play. Against a gambly opener, I'm 3-betting large, calling if shoved on and shoving most non A/K high flops.

3betting pre for half your stack wasn't a very good option at all. It leaves you with less than a hp size bet otf with a med pp.

Just call pre we have imp odds to triple up

Calling isnt a leak at all. We arent just set mining, there are advantageous flops for us that dont include a T.

I personally like call>3b/c>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>fold>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>3b/f

I don't think we can 3bet without not being committed. this is either jam or call right?

My first thought was to just shove pf. Stacks are too short to 3! and play postflop and 3! with intention of him 4! spewing is very slim. I think gambly tilted villains are more likely to make calling mistakes here than spewy 4! shoves. If you have the tilted gambly read I think this is an easy shove pf. Well played though. Shoving > 3! smaller > Calling > folding.

If you think that V is tilted and looking to gamboool, then TT for ~100 bb's is the nuts, IMO. GII.

With the straddle, the stacks have been cut in half. This is no longer a 100b shove with TT. We have TT with 45bb. folding would be terrible and so would calling. If you call and the straddle comes along for the attractive odds to have now created a $225 pre flop pot. Your SPR would be around 2. What would be the plan on a Qxx or Jxx board? I think raising is the only reasonable play given the straddle dynamic.

Edit: I actually like shoving. In most live games you convince 55 and 44 that your shoving with AQ/Aj/Ak to steal the dead money.

folding is horrendous and out of the question. this is pretty clearly a call. we need to invest 40 to set mine. we have plenty of implied odds to do so profitably. there's already about $150 in the pot, and with $450ish behind, and multiple opponents, we are getting plenty good price.

im not sure raising would be higher EV (it may be), but im not thrilled about turning TT into a bluff. i think there's hands with less equity and more blockers that we could have for that portion of our range here.

you want to convince hands like 55 and 44 (that you have a MASSIVE equity edge over) to fold?