SB: ~$1k. Recently sat down and has been involved in a good amount of pots. Late 30's Sephardic /Middle Eastern woman. Seems like a rec player or maybe the type to play donkaments. Seems like she's trying to win every hand. She tried to bluff a huge spazzy whale OTR (she didn't know it at the time) after calling down a few streets with K high no draws.

EP: ~$700. Younger, tightish Indonesian looking dude. Seems a bit card-dead and is tilting over the aforementioned whale making 5k in 2 hands by sickly sucking out on the same dude twice... I can read the "I deserve those chips, not him" through this guy's body language & can smell it seeping through his pores.

Hero: Covers. On the tightish side but taking small pots w/out showdown. Have been facilitating a conversation over adultery, yoga pants, and airports, but have abstained from the alcohol the other participants are consuming.

EP opens tp $20. Hero next to act w/ AJ and elects to call instead of 3betting for position b/c spazz whale with position on us will likely call any 3bet.

whale folds (sigh), but there are 2 more field callers and SB completes.

$99

579

checks through

A

x,EP $50, Hero calls, SB calls.

$248

2

SB x, EP x, Hero $110, SB $415, EP folds, Hero..?

Just seems like V's range is busted draw heavy. Hand has been played as passively as possible up to this point. Seems like anything of value would have lead out long before this. We look like we could be trying to buy....

That's a real real thin vbet w EP still in the hand. I ck river.

AP call I guess if she plays every hand and has bluffs. Guess she had 43s this time.

Fold river. You played the hand well. SB repping slow played 86, slow played sets, 34 or random two pairs.

In my personal experience SB is rarely if ever bluffing like this but given your description of her maybe its possible. From rec players check raise on the river more often than not is the nuts.

Yeah, the raise stinks enough I think you have to call this one. I'm not buying that she has a monster that she's slow played through the river.

This is the exact spot I have found myself in the last couple of sessions....betting the river for what seems like a reasonable value bet and then some donk check raises and rips it all in.... I go in the tank, and start trying to construct a range, build something that has to be buff heavy and there they are with the nuts and I'm left wondering would they even bother to bluff that spot at all....
Rec players are not concerned with needing a balanced check raise river range..... If they were going to bluff this river they would just go ahead and bluff....

I find it hard to get my head around properly, I just know river check raises from rec players means I haz the nuts, you sir need to fold.

Fwiw I think if your against some young Internet kid who.you believe is decent then your absolutely correct in your analysis and should probably call

Venice you really think rec player is bluffing off half her stack with missed hearts on this river?

Maybe she doesn't have 86 because she would've bet on turn I guess, but still think A7,A5,A2 or other random hands you're losing to she does this play more with then bluffs, which weights this decision to a fold

I don't think I'm not buying that she slow played a monster is a good enough reason to call..

HOWEVER, I have played against some whales though that don't care what cards they have and just decide to bluff because their "feelin it" and don't care about the money

If I was in this hand at the heat of the moment I would go into the tank and try to soul read, unless given like some crazy physical tell like she sweating and really nervous I think I'd still come to the conclusion that folding is best here

Guess I'm playing devils advocate here lol

86 may play it like this. Not a fan of the river bet though. I'm not sure what you are trying to get value from. We beat a handful of ATs and A8s combos from EP and that's about it.

How do you guys do the thing where you can put the suit like that next to the card?

Also think the river bet is pretty thin.

I'd normally snap fold this, but against this V I also think we have to call it off. She has previously tried a river bluff.

Was the conversation about the intersection of yoga pants, adultery, and airports or was each topic was covered individually? Do you feel alcohol would have made your points more cogent/persuasive?

':heart':

Omit the single quotes and substitute spade, diamond, club as appropriate. Singular, not plural (heart, not hearts)

I'd fold as played, don't like the bet

Tough spot.

Probably folding. Don't think you can get a decent discussion or even well informed opinions, given reads.

This is going to be so dependent on villain.



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Yes... my river bet is super thin. Now that I think on it (this hand wasn't in my notes, just recalling from memory), there might have been another turn caller, making the pot even larger and my river bet even smaller, but anyways... I was trying to target a weaker A and maybe some middling pair sb might call with. When I called the turn, I was very cautious b/c I thought there was a good chance EP had me outkicked. When he checked river I figured I might have the best kicker.

@ case, All three were almost separate convos. When a new player sat down, a female player was asking the guys if they'd sleep with a married woman and I had to clue in the new guy to make him feel welcome. Later, the new guy was wondering why so many pieces of clothing have anchors on them. I hadn't noticed the trend, and remarked so. He gave me a list of where he'd seen anchors, then began talking about fashion in general. I told him I liked the trend of yoga pants and wouldn't care if yoga pants got anchors on them. Then the same guy started thinking about flying back to Vegas, his home, for a Tinder hook-up. Me and another player began weighing the options of ****ing over LAX in favor of either Long Beach Airport, or Bob Hope in Burbank.

lol. Sounds like a fun table.

Normally, no. However, I think Harrington's advice from 10 years ago still makes sense. You can't always fold in these situations. You're going to have to pick a few of them where the line doesn't add up and suck up a light call. I'm hard pressed to come up with a better set of circumstances than this to call with a pair.

Theres definitely better situations to look up V light or "hero call", in this particular hand I don't think it is. The line from V does add up and more often then not V here has AJ beat so making a light call would be a mistake.

A specific example of a hand with better circumstances to call light would be if V had led out on river into us instead of check raise in this exact hand.

In general hero call should be saved for when V plays a hand so well that his range is for the most part balanced (he has almost the same amount of bluffs as value). Then you can go into physical tells or other info to sway your call either way and be more inclined to call light depending on other factors.

After she check raise us on this river the majority of hands in her range now beat us. I'm inclined to believe this type of V will never make this play with worse value, only better or complete bluffs. Making this an easy fold.

Also in general I would strongly advise to avoid hero call the fish, save that for tougher regs and you can get into some pretty nutty leveling wars.

Against fish you should be able to outplay and find much better spots where you are a huge favorite and confident that you are making the correct play.

Thanks.

Looks and smells exactly like 43s that had a double gutshot OTT.

Don't hate the river bet if HU, but multiway it's very possible we're outkicked.

I agree with this. Unless you really believe she is an airball river check raise bluffer (in which case, call fish and wildlife because she is an endangered species), this has gotta be a fold with only AJ


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Ok... well I guess Venice is the only one who has faith. I realize this looks like a fold on paper, which is why I didn't really want to post it but did since calling does look spewy. Hard to include all the live reads, like the expression on V's face as well as timing and the way the raise was announced... but anyways



edit: I like to balance my HH posting range...

Good call OP even if villain showed the winner. Villain displayed willingness to bluff and you were able to combine that live reads. In a vacuum this is likely a fold but you had enough information to close the gap and make calling the better play against this particular villain on this particular runout.