5/5 Top2 facing turn overbet - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

Two Plus Two Forums Poker Strategy Live No-Limit Hold’em Cash

5/5 Top2 facing turn overbet

Post Reply Subscribe

...

Page 1 of 2

1 2

Page 1 of 2

1 2

05-16-2018 , 04:03 AM

HomelessPizza

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 599

5/5 NL 700 eff
EP2 just sat down but is pretty active so far (I would lean towards tagging him as aggressive)

EP2 opens 20
I call on his direct left with K

BB calls
Flop K

(60)
EP2 bets 40, only I call
Turn 10

(140)
***EP bets 160, I just flat
River 9

EP2 verbal checks and stares at me
Hero?

Lots of different ways to go throughout this hand...but major concerns are just flatting turn overbet and then possibly going for thin value OTR.

Quote

05-16-2018 , 04:35 AM

El Diablo

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 70,770

Homeless,

I raise that super drawy turn.

Having just called that, I bet 200 on the river if I can fold to a checkraise, otherwise I call and hate myself for not raising the turn.

Quote

05-16-2018 , 05:11 AM

Mr Spyutastic

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 15,531

I'm raising the turn. You're really only scared of AQ. He could be doing this with AA, AK, KQ, KT pretty easily imo.

As played I don't think he has a Q here very often so I go for thin value and try to give him a difficult decision by betting 165. Hard to call, hard to fold if you're sitting there with AK, AA.

Quote

05-16-2018 , 05:21 AM

feel wrath

The Situation

Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 31,621

I'm not sure I flat KJhh there in MP. 3 bet or fold imo. I quite like it as a 3 betting hand in this spot.

River would be a very thin value bet imo unless he's a real station. It's a huge scare card for him and for us and we have to ask ourselves what holding is calling our river bet?
Maybe he crying calls with K10 (if he has that here?) Does he call here with AA or AK? Is he check/calling river with hands that beat us like sets?

Quote

05-16-2018 , 07:59 AM

AllTheCheese

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 11,898

Raising turn is an insane play. Maybe it has some merit if your goal is to fold Villain off a chop lol.

Quote

05-16-2018 , 10:04 AM

Joey913

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 1,302

I'd actually raise flop. Agree that by turn top 2 is a bit vulnerable and not sure I whether or not I would raise if I had flatted flop.

River, AP, I'd b/f 200. Can't see him c/r as a bluff.

Quote

05-16-2018 , 10:17 AM

Rhino4787

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 52

It'd be difficult to put him on a made hand after the river check.

He's leaving a lot of value out there by not betting a straight or BDF to a Hero who hasn't shown much aggression so far. Sets of Ks or Js are less likely b/c we hold the KJ.

I like a thin value bet or check to showdown here.

Quote

05-16-2018 , 10:25 AM

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 13,458

I raise the flop. As played, I call the turn, but I'm not thrilled with that over-bet. I guess raising the turn is an option, but it needs to be raise/fold, I think?

Not sure about betting for value on the river, either. AQ is a very real possibility, as is KK, although we block it, ditto JJ -- and he's probably not folding any of those. I just don't see V over-betting a very scary turn with AK or AA.

On this run-out, I might just check back river and hope MHIG. I really don't think he's folding better (unless we get lucky) or calling with worse, and we definitely can't stand a raise, which he might do with the naked Ad.

Quote

05-16-2018 , 11:01 AM

Joey913

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 1,302

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhino4787

I like a thin value bet or check to showdown here.

Haha really going out on a limb there.

Quote

05-16-2018 , 11:23 AM

#10

Rhino4787

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joey913

Haha really going out on a limb there.

haha, actually just insta-fold is better!

But thin value is preferred to 3/4-pot size i think

Quote

05-16-2018 , 11:35 AM

#11

PokerNoob@

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 159

I don't think you have any read on this V yet. It is really hard to "thin value".
AP, I would go allin. (about pot size shove)

Quote

05-16-2018 , 11:36 AM

#12

SISBAA

newbie

Join Date: Nov 2017 Posts: 19

I played just like you, and river check

Quote

05-16-2018 , 11:43 AM

#13

Joey913

old hand

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 1,302

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhino4787

haha, actually just insta-fold is better!

But thin value is preferred to 3/4-pot size i think

I think this is where the confusion is. My understanding of definition of "thin value" is in the decision bet when it is less than perfectly clear we have the best hand. You seem to be using the term to refer to a small bet. I could be off but I don't think that's right.

So when you said that after V checked river, we should bet thin for value for check, that encompassed all possibilities and hence why I found it humorous.

Quote

05-16-2018 , 11:55 AM

#14

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 13,458

I always considered thin value as a decision bet, but I also always considered it a small bet.

Quote

05-16-2018 , 12:03 PM

#15

PokerNoob@

centurion

Join Date: Dec 2017 Posts: 159

I understand thin value is you are confident that your hand is good but not strong(nutted) on a pretty wet board. You're betting a quite small size to get your opponent crying call with a "worse" hand.

Quote

05-16-2018 , 12:10 PM

#16

Rhino4787

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joey913

yea, I interpret "thin value" as a smallish 1/3 - 1/2 pot bet but I could be wrong there.

Quote

05-16-2018 , 12:23 PM

#17

shorn7

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,495

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joey913

I'd actually raise flop. Agree that by turn top 2 is a bit vulnerable and not sure I whether or not I would raise if I had flatted flop.

River, AP, I'd b/f 200. Can't see him c/r as a bluff.

This

Quote

05-16-2018 , 02:41 PM

#18

mdelore

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 1,315

Love raising this flop with all sorts of hands, especially this one.

I check back river, what is he going to call with?

Quote

05-16-2018 , 03:01 PM

#19

shorn7

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 4,495

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdelore

Love raising this flop with all sorts of hands, especially this one.

I check back river, what is he going to call with?

Yeah more I think about it, betting the river for value is way uber thin here. His calling range destroys us.

Quote

05-16-2018 , 03:14 PM

#20

QuantumSurfer

old hand

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 1,987

Quote:

Originally Posted by feel wrath

I'm not sure I flat KJhh there in MP. 3 bet or fold imo. I quite like it as a 3 betting hand in this spot.

I like 3b here. We should be more linear in an EP vs MP situation, especially vs a wide opener. Calling isn't bad though. Better than folding imo.

Also agree with raising flop. As played, river would be a check from me. Might throw out a ridiculously small amount as super small thin river bets have been working for me lately, but that's usually against people I know fairly well.

Quote

05-16-2018 , 03:21 PM

#21

HomelessPizza

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 599

Quote:

Originally Posted by shorn7

Yeah more I think about it, betting the river for value is way uber thin here. His calling range destroys us.

It's clearly very thin value, but I would hate myself if I were to check back top2 IP and be good. I see way too many players check back strong hands and leave a ton of value on the table, and I am trying to bet more spots like this.

I think his calling range only destroys us if we size big (>1/2 pot). Important to size small enough to get called by worse, whereas I think bombing is reckless as you narrow his calling range to only hands that beat you. I sized 200 in 460.

OTF, not a fan of raising especially IP when we smash and block a lot of his calling range. Also, I don't have a lot of bluffs on this flop (QT, T9?) and I want to keep villain's range wide.

Quote

05-16-2018 , 03:25 PM

#22

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 13,458

So, what's his calling range that you beat? AK and KQ w/o diamonds? (If he'll open KQ from EP.)

Neither one should be calling $100, let alone $200 (looks very value-y), but maybe you'll get lucky.

Quote

05-16-2018 , 03:39 PM

#23

HomelessPizza

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 599

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javanewt

So, what's his calling range that you beat? AK and KQ w/o diamonds? (If he'll open KQ from EP.)

Neither one should be calling $100, let alone $200 (looks very value-y), but maybe you'll get lucky.

Against your standard 5/5 vil, I agree that I probably don't get called by worse. But, this guy can have a wider range than most 5/5 guys, so I can get value from AA, AK, KT, JT, J9, K9. (KQ is a straight)

Quote

05-16-2018 , 03:42 PM

#24

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 13,458

Oh, yeah, even KQ beats you

If he opens that wide from EP and over-bets the turn with those hands, I guess it's worth a go, but it's extremely thin and $200 might have been pushing it. I hope it worked.

Quote

05-16-2018 , 03:46 PM

#25

Mr Spyutastic

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 15,531

For me it's more the fact that most people aren't checking Q in this spot which tells me he's more apt to have a one pair hand.

Though checking back is fine too. I don't think it makes a big difference here tbh.

Quote

Page 1 of 2

First

1 2

Last

Post Reply Subscribe

...

Page 1 of 2

First

1 2

Last