So Villain sits down for an orbit before this hand. No hands of notes involving him.

Effective stacks are about 500

PF: Villain limps in and I raise to 25 with AJss.

Flop: 9d8h2d

Villain checks and I bet 40. He raises to 80. I call.

The way he check raised, it didn't seem particularly strong and it seemed like he wanted to just take it then and there. By getting called, he seemed to be bothered. Following my call, he asks to check it down. I say no.

Turn: Kd

He checks again and I bet 120. He tanks for a while and makes a crying call. He is visually bothered and seemed like he was teetering on his decision. Following the call, he asks again to check it down

River: 4s

He checks and I ship.


Following the hand, do I have any reason to believe that this bluff wouldn't work against a guy who genuinely looked like he was weak and asked to check it down twice? I was pretty sure he wasn't hollywooding.

With the info I've given, what are your thoughts of this hand?

a9?

He did not have A9. What are your thoughts of my line knowing the info I've given?

My thoughts are that if he's called the turn, and he's not a complete donkey, he's more than likely calling the river as well.

Like i would normally agree. Its just that he seemed so damn weak that maybe he'd fold the river.

What are your thoughts on his offers to check it down twice?

To me, it smells a lot like he has one pair and is dreading having to call it down, even tho he apparently knows it's the right decision. You see it a lot in passive live players, especially if they don't have a decent bankroll.

Also, live players will often try this with a relatively strong hand for no apparent reason. I have certainly seen all sort of weird **** playing live. Even wouldn't surprise me if he had top set here and then slow rolled you on the river. LOL LIVEAMENTS.

I pretty much agree that he hates calling down and would like nothing other than to see a showdown. Isn't this a spot to put pressure and let him be passive and fold?

if he called the turn you probably should shut it down...this is so player dependent tho... is he a grinder that usually barely beats a really weak game and has just been running bad and he doesn't feel liek playing a big pot ... maybe he's got a pair of 10's and he thinks you gotta have the nuts if you called his intimidating check raise

the truth is there is no definate answer

Yeah i felt like once he c/r'd and got called, he would shut down and give it up at some point.

tbh i didn't really have a read on him. I'm a reg in the game and he def isn't, as I had never seen him before.

i've realized that some people just do whatever they want, go with the flow.... its not like he's a tough opponent

asking to check it down twice is really funny

so what'd he have?

Better questions:

(1) Why did you bet this flop?

(2) Why did you call the flop c/r with the intention of running an elaborate bluff with complete air vs. a player you have no real read on?

Whether this bluff is likely to work depends a lot on the player's tendencies, which you don't know. There are some players who love to call on the flop and turn and then fold to a river bet. There are other players who hate to fold any street no matter what, even when they aren't happy about their hand. It really helps to know what kind of player you're up against when you make a play that depends to a high degree on him folding at some point.


As for your question: Yes, I think you made a mistake with your bluff in that you decided to run the bluff at all. Given that you decided to call the flop c/r, the turn is a perfect card to bluff at. I like your bet-sizing if you intend to shove any river that he checks to you -- if you wanted to just take one more shot at it, then your turn bet needs to be closer to pot-sized (trade-off: you only give him one chance to fold, but the benefit is you risk $200 to win $210 instead of $400 to win the $210 in the pot + the $120 he'll likely call on the turn).

I'm also not sure how you telling him you wouldn't check it down after the flop action and before the turn affects things, but my gut tells me it'll make it more likely that you'll get looked up (I could be wrong about this because I'm not very good at interpreting table talk).

As an aside, I expect you'd probably 3-bet the flop with most of your monster hands and big draws, so your plan of calling to take it away later isn't great -- unless you catch perfect like the king of diamonds, you'll have a tough time selling a big hand. Even if you do catch a perfect turn card to bluff at, you still may need to push your stack into the middle in the hope that your elaborate bluff will work.

Seems like he had 10s or something.

Agree with Proofrock.

I wouldn't call this flop checkraise from an unknown player. Pretty passive yes but if he is checkraising me with crap I will catch onto it and take him out later.

What are you hoping to hit? You could make top pair that gives him two pair or a straight or flush if he has something like A9, A8, J9, 78, Ad8d. If he c/r the flop is he really going to fold to a bluff on the turn unless its a totally horrible card for him?

If he bets the turn you are going to have to put in either a massive raise or fold. If he checks the turn you might be tempted to put in a big bet as well; if he calls you've worked the pot up so big that bluffing the river with air starts to look good, if he raises all-in you have wasted money.

The turn is a great card for you, and worth bluffing at imo. Sucks that he calls. The river is a tough spot. I would probably just take the cautious route and check. But there is like $400 in the pot and he has shown weakness so it's not an auto check by any means.

I like to keep bluffs cheap vs unknown players. If I run an elaborate expensive bluff it is going to be vs someone that I have some hard reads on.

I think the what was going on in my mind is the vibe of weakness I perceived.
His c/r didn't seem like it was for value. It seemed like he wanted to win it then and there without seeing anymore cards. I felt that he wanted to invest as little as possible while attempting to take it down there.

My read was strengthened by his request to check it down after. I felt like he did this because he desperately wanted a cheap showdown. I didn't think an overpair or a set would ask to check it down. I was calling with the intention of taking it away if a scare card comes like a flush or straight card. I really couldn't see this guy having more than a weak 1 pair.

When the turn peeled, he insta checked and tanked on the call after I bet. It really looked like he was on edge. So I have to assume hes really close to folding and I need to give him a reason to do so.

One reason I bet the river is that a lot of live players will call the turn and fold the river. Its a tendency i've experienced a lot and I felt this might be one of those instances. To add to this, he seemed so weak on the turn and the seconds before the turn peeled that he seemed closer to folding than calling for the rest of the hand

TBH I might have gotten a little overconfident in my reading abilities and ability to get someone to fold, so i needed opinions on this.

The results also skew my opinion of the hand, thus why i'm choosing not to tell you guys what he had

But the thing is, your read could be spot-on... he could be have some lame holding... but still call you down anyway. It isn't enough just to know that he is weak. You also have to know that he can fold his weak holding. That is why I would prefer to wait for more reads before I get a lot of money invested.

this looks so much like TT right here and I think if he calls the turn he's calling the river.