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5/5 - busted FD. Fire river? 5/5 - busted FD. Fire river?

06-10-2016 , 03:54 PM
$500 ES.

CO is a tag MAWG I've never seen before. Has about $800 but is in for that much. Has a high LP PFR frequency and he predictably makes it $20 here. Hero calls OTB with QJ and SB calls.

Flop ($60): A74
I have to admit that I can't remember if the ace is a spade or not. I keep having this problem and can't seem to correct it. I feel like it wasn't a spade though.

SB quickly checks and CO stays motionless for enough time that I tell him that SB checked and it's on him now. He checks, I bet $30 and only he calls.

Turn ($120): 5
Hero bets $75, CO c/c

River ($270): 3
CO checks.

We have some prior history:

H1: At the must move table I called his CO open PFR from the BB but c/f to a 3/4 PSB on Q54r HU.

H2: At our current table, utg limped, he called next to act, I called with Js Ts, two others called. I bet on A96ss (again, can't remember if the Ace was a spade), BB and V called. Turn Qx gives me OE. Checks thru. Didn't want to risk getting blown off my draw. Riv K checks to me. I bet $75 into $80 and V tank calls.

H3: he opens $20 from CO, I call OTB, SB calls. He cbets $25 on 975hh, I raise to $75 and take it down.

When he c/c flop I felt like he had something like KK-TT. I felt less sure after he c/c turn, but some players get sticky with KK in this spot. I'm sure he'd cbet a FD or a set. Maybe he slowplayed AA OTF but would he really check turn and risk giving a free card?

We both have tag images. Fire again or check back?
5/5 - busted FD. Fire river? Quote
06-10-2016 , 04:31 PM
check the turn
5/5 - busted FD. Fire river? Quote
06-10-2016 , 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snoopy5
check the turn
Why?
5/5 - busted FD. Fire river? Quote
06-10-2016 , 04:43 PM
poor fold equity
5/5 - busted FD. Fire river? Quote
06-10-2016 , 04:47 PM
I'd check the turn with a bare flush draw after villain calls the flop cbet. Take a free shot to bink a spade.

I'd probably give up and check back. He's never folding Ax or better. I don't think he calls the turn with KK- or 7x.
5/5 - busted FD. Fire river? Quote
06-10-2016 , 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nice_Guy_Eddie
I'd check the turn with a bare flush draw after villain calls the flop cbet. Take a free shot to bink a spade.

I'd probably give up and check back. He's never folding Ax or better. I don't think he calls the turn with KK- or 7x.
This would be my argument for betting turn. I'd bet turn with all my value hands so I feel like I have to add in some semi bluffs to balance that out. Can't just bet when I have it and check when I don't.

Also, I don't want to call pre with my hand just to flop a draw and try to hit. I'd like to find other ways to win using my position.

Betting turn keeps my range open and gives me options OTR, which checking does not. Plus it establishes an aggressive image for me which prevents CO (with a wide open CO PFR range) from playing comfortably oop vs me. If he sees that I check back draws OTT then he will always know where I stand when I bet. I don't want to have that one-and-done type of image when I bet flop.

Maybe it's me but I think double barreling a draw IP here is kind of standard.
5/5 - busted FD. Fire river? Quote
06-10-2016 , 05:38 PM
Since you are representing an A, take the same line you would take if you actually had it.

If this means fire three barrels, then do it.
5/5 - busted FD. Fire river? Quote
06-10-2016 , 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTLB
This would be my argument for betting turn. I'd bet turn with all my value hands so I feel like I have to add in some semi bluffs to balance that out. Can't just bet when I have it and check when I don't.

Also, I don't want to call pre with my hand just to flop a draw and try to hit. I'd like to find other ways to win using my position.

Betting turn keeps my range open and gives me options OTR, which checking does not. Plus it establishes an aggressive image for me which prevents CO (with a wide open CO PFR range) from playing comfortably oop vs me. If he sees that I check back draws OTT then he will always know where I stand when I bet. I don't want to have that one-and-done type of image when I bet flop.

Maybe it's me but I think double barreling a draw IP here is kind of standard.
Fair point. I would not be checking all draws in this situation. I would bet a combo draw or a straight draw with a two flush out there to have real/bluff outs.

I would check a non-nut bare flush draw recognizing the weakness of the draw. There is some RIO, especially if the A isn't a spade. I don't think I could call a c/r, so I prefer a check.
5/5 - busted FD. Fire river? Quote
06-10-2016 , 05:53 PM
If you bet OTR - I guess you are representing a good A or a flopped set.

From V's perspective - would you go for 3 streets of value on AQ/AJ? It's certainly not likely that V has a flush draw... so he's either playing AK-type hand very slowly (unlikely) - or he has the TT -KK hand you noted.

For what it's worth - if he remembered H2 - you played a draw hand quite slowly (unlike this hand)... if he's fairly observant - you can use that memory to triple barrel.
5/5 - busted FD. Fire river? Quote
06-10-2016 , 05:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lapidator
Since you are representing an A, take the same line you would take if you actually had it.

If this means fire three barrels, then do it.
Thing is, if I had something like AT, I'd probably check back riv. I'd likely only bet 2P+ OTR, or an AK that I somehow didn't 3bet pre OTB.
5/5 - busted FD. Fire river? Quote
06-10-2016 , 06:05 PM
Bluffing on compressed air without folding equity?
That's what I see tourists do here in Vegas on top of playing for stacks with an over-pair or paying to draw with 6-8 outs on the turn.

So, actually one doesn't have to be a specialist in NL because people come to Vegas to call, bluff and play hard on over-pairs/TPTK
5/5 - busted FD. Fire river? Quote
06-10-2016 , 06:07 PM
I'm probably not double barreling without triple barreling this run out.

If I bet, I like 55-60% on river. Looks so valueish. 150 gives you good odds.

It could also be completely fine to check turn and stop bluffing. Can this guy fold?

What did he have in this example hand here:

Quote:
H2: At our current table, utg limped, he called next to act, I called with Js Ts, two others called. I bet on A96ss (again, can't remember if the Ace was a spade), BB and V called. Turn Qx gives me OE. Checks thru. Didn't want to risk getting blown off my draw. Riv K checks to me. I bet $75 into $80 and V tank calls.
5/5 - busted FD. Fire river? Quote
06-10-2016 , 06:14 PM
Be nice to know what he had in H2 and if the ace in this hand was a spade. Makes a big difference.

Since you don't know and he called a PSB on the river before, I don't think you get him to fold enough to make the triple barrel work.
5/5 - busted FD. Fire river? Quote

      
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