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5/5 AK pre flop spot 5/5 AK pre flop spot

10-01-2014 , 06:03 PM
Hero - viewed as winning LAG. Can make plays but can lay down big hands. Not scared to get it in.

Villain - super LAG. Can play any 2 from any position and make big moves but doesn't pick his spots that well. Will raise an unopened put on the button nearly always.

Hero has just sat down at 5/5 and bought in for $700 (max). Get dealt AcKc in the big blind. Folds around to villain (around $475) on the button who makes it 25 . SB folds. Hero makes it 80. Villain repops 190.

Standard shove or is anyone finding a fold here?
5/5 AK pre flop spot Quote
10-01-2014 , 11:11 PM
What's wrong with a call here? I'm seeing villain as trying to steal a pot from a new player at the table. Do you have any experience with this guy? You could shove but I wouldn't be suprised if he calls. Not saying that a all in shove is wrong, but you will have to hit something to win when villain calls with his pair.
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10-02-2014 , 12:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jth467
Hero - viewed as winning LAG. Can make plays but can lay down big hands. Not scared to get it in.

Villain - super LAG. Can play any 2 from any position and make big moves but doesn't pick his spots that well. Will raise an unopened put on the button nearly always.
I'm assuming this is all in reference to post flop because otherwise this wouldn't be a question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jth467
Hero has just sat down at 5/5 and bought in for $700 (max). Get dealt AcKc in the big blind. Folds around to villain (around $475) on the button who makes it 25 . SB folds. Hero makes it 80. Villain repops 190.

Standard shove or is anyone finding a fold here?
Given effective stacks are 95 bb and he opened 5x here I think it's a pretty simple 5bet jam given what limited information we have. Sorry he had Queens and they held?
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10-02-2014 , 12:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingandQueen
What's wrong with a call here? I'm seeing villain as trying to steal a pot from a new player at the table. Do you have any experience with this guy? You could shove but I wouldn't be suprised if he calls. Not saying that a all in shove is wrong, but you will have to hit something to win when villain calls with his pair.
We have played a lot together but no significant hands heads up. He knows everyone views him as a maniac so my feeling is that in this spot he always sees me as light. I don't think he would tealise that I'm never 3 betting light here with basically nothing in the pot as it's just not worth it.

I hadn't really consider flatting... OOP I don't think I would ever flat this shallow.

What are you doing when it comes 6 high assuming villain shoves?

Approximately 285 to call for 670 when AK is very likely good here with a pretty wide range from villain. But then again, could be crushed...
5/5 AK pre flop spot Quote
10-02-2014 , 06:10 AM
Standard shove is standard.

Feeling pretty damn good about it aswell.
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10-02-2014 , 01:03 PM
Given stacks, definitely shoving.

I would also probably make it bigger pre OOP vs a lag that might call very light.
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10-02-2014 , 05:14 PM
Given history and range it would seem good to shove here.

You don't mention what he 4-bets with or how often? I see lots of aggressive players when they open, but the range shrinks dramatically when they 3/4-bet. They rely on their 'other' image to get folks to call them down in these spots when they are crushed.

If you dont have that feeling, then flip away. You are up against AX as much as you are AA-QQ which balances the pp/AK flips you might expect for 100bb. GL
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10-02-2014 , 07:07 PM
Standard shove is standard indeed

Sent from my SM-G900V using 2+2 Forums
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10-02-2014 , 07:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jth467
We have played a lot together but no significant hands heads up. He knows everyone views him as a maniac so my feeling is that in this spot he always sees me as light. I don't think he would tealise that I'm never 3 betting light here with basically nothing in the pot as it's just not worth it.

I hadn't really consider flatting... OOP I don't think I would ever flat this shallow.

What are you doing when it comes 6 high assuming villain shoves?

Approximately 285 to call for 670 when AK is very likely good here with a pretty wide range from villain. But then again, could be crushed...
I'm not necessarily advocating flatting, but you'd have to evaluate the value of shoving yourself on that flop vs check-calling and check-folding. You are not always going to check the flop if just call.

If he is a maniac you have played together with a lot, even if you have not played significant hands heads up, you should be able to recall the worst hands you have seen him 4bet with. Some LAGs slow down if they get played back at and are only super-aggressive if they retain the initiative in the hand. Perhaps a pertinent question is to ask which hands do you think he would just call your reraise with.
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10-02-2014 , 10:25 PM
Standard shove but its not fist pump unless he has AQ often and this wont be the case.

We cannot allow him to win pre though as he has AK VERY often.

So we shove.
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10-02-2014 , 11:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianNit
I'm not necessarily advocating flatting, but you'd have to evaluate the value of shoving yourself on that flop vs check-calling and check-folding. You are not always going to check the flop if just call.

If he is a maniac you have played together with a lot, even if you have not played significant hands heads up, you should be able to recall the worst hands you have seen him 4bet with. Some LAGs slow down if they get played back at and are only super-aggressive if they retain the initiative in the hand. Perhaps a pertinent question is to ask which hands do you think he would just call your reraise with.
From experience his 4 betting range alters significantly whether is is winning. He usually plays the during the day and and it was about 6pm and he only had about 100BB in front but I had just sat down so not much info to work with I am assuming he was losing for the day. In this spot I think he can 4-bets all pockets, and suited broadway cards.

I ended up shoving and he snapped.

I binked an ace on the flop and he didn't show but looked disgusted and took a long time to throw his cards in the muck. KK?!?!?!

At the time I thought very standard shove and was fist pumping gettting it in against this player but given his reaction not sure if i sucked out big time here so
wanted to see what peoples thoughts were
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10-03-2014 , 06:53 AM
Since villain is on AK a lot, would a stop-and-go be appropriate here?
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10-03-2014 , 06:56 AM
5bet to 475/call or just 5bet shove (depending on whichever looks stronger to Villain).

Folding AK isn't an option here in a BTN vs BB war between a LAG and a super-LAG with 140bbs effective.
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10-03-2014 , 01:45 PM
So 90 more and almost no one can consider flatting.

Interesting.
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10-03-2014 , 02:47 PM
Flat and never fold postflop. EZ game.
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10-03-2014 , 02:55 PM
Ship it in. Flatting here is a vastly inferior play.
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10-03-2014 , 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATsai
5bet to 475/call or just 5bet shove (depending on whichever looks stronger to Villain).

Folding AK isn't an option here in a BTN vs BB war between a LAG and a super-LAG with 140bbs effective.
Villain has $475, or 95bbs, but I agree with the rest of your post.
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10-03-2014 , 03:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tucco
Ship it in. Flatting here is a vastly inferior play.
Why? Villains range is polarized and we tend to dominate it, IE A4o or K8s. Jamming lets him fold those hands, flatting lets us get more money in vs a dominated range.
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10-03-2014 , 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranma4703
Why? Villains range is polarized and we tend to dominate it, IE A4o or K8s. Jamming lets him fold those hands, flatting lets us get more money in vs a dominated range.
Slowplaying a hand becomes much less desirable as the spr gets lower and lower. You really don't want to give villain the ability to see a flop here with 25% equity when the pot is so huge without putting in the rest of his stack in.
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