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5/10 - top two on wet board, facing a cold 4-bet 5/10 - top two on wet board, facing a cold 4-bet

03-03-2012 , 09:09 PM
5/10 game.

itt I make a really nitty and questionable fold.


Loose passive fish in EP makes it 35. I flat T9s in MP. 2 people flat from LP.

POT: $155

Flop: 89Thh

Fish opener leads for $50 with a $500 stack. I 3-bet to $175. 1 fold. The cutoff cold 4-bets to $360. Original opener folds. 4-better is new at the table and I have zero history with him.

Thoughts:
I'm confused by the small sizing of villians 4-bet. In most cases I feel that fd/combo draws would be sized larger to take advantage of fold equity. He is also 4-betting into two players that are showing strength on a really wet board. Physically, villain appears to be in his mid-thirties, and does not seem like an online player or someone who would take high variance aggressive lines. Obviously take that for what it's worth.

Instead of flatting, I elected to make a nitty fold. Thoughts?
5/10 - top two on wet board, facing a cold 4-bet Quote
03-03-2012 , 09:52 PM
pretty standard fold in my mind... he will show up w/ the straight or a set almost always
5/10 - top two on wet board, facing a cold 4-bet Quote
03-04-2012 , 01:16 AM
Stack sizes make a difference in how to play this hand.
5/10 - top two on wet board, facing a cold 4-bet Quote
03-04-2012 , 01:45 AM
sorry, I thought I included stack sizes. We are about 1.2k effective.
5/10 - top two on wet board, facing a cold 4-bet Quote
03-04-2012 , 08:29 AM
Super easy fold, dead or flipping, and the sizing seems to indicate it's more likely we're almost dead. If we had 67 here then we have a legitimately agonizing decision.
5/10 - top two on wet board, facing a cold 4-bet Quote
03-04-2012 , 01:32 PM
Pf, this is a fold. The initial villain only has 585, giving you 16:1 IO. The problem is that you're about 20:1 to flopping 2pr+ and as you see here, even when you do you can be beat.

As played, a cold min-4bet against an unknown is going to be a better hand that top two too much of the time. His air range is a null set and he's rarely doing this with TP.
5/10 - top two on wet board, facing a cold 4-bet Quote
03-05-2012 , 02:45 AM
You're not facing a 4bet. Count the bets, there's one, two, three. Preflop the bets go blinds, raise, 3bet, 4bet.

Nittery aside, villain description? A ton of people aren't capable of doing this as a bluff, and if they do, they're shoving.
5/10 - top two on wet board, facing a cold 4-bet Quote
03-05-2012 , 02:42 PM
id fold. unless you have a read that this guy is a big fish that will stack off with any 2pair or sometimes AA here id fold. if he would be a fish like that you should raise again to get it in since we are oop and turns will suck for many reasons.
5/10 - top two on wet board, facing a cold 4-bet Quote
03-05-2012 , 03:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewLiveFish
Pf, this is a fold. The initial villain only has 585, giving you 16:1 IO. The problem is that you're about 20:1 to flopping 2pr+ and as you see here, even when you do you can be beat.

As played, a cold min-4bet against an unknown is going to be a better hand that top two too much of the time. His air range is a null set and he's rarely doing this with TP.
Don't disagree with the fold on the flop, but do with the pre-flop fold. While you are a big dog to flop 2 pair or better you are only about a 2.7-1 dog to flop either 2 pair, trips, OE str draw or flush draw or better. In position on the OR I'd rather 3 bet pre than fold.
5/10 - top two on wet board, facing a cold 4-bet Quote
03-07-2012 , 01:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrr63
Don't disagree with the fold on the flop, but do with the pre-flop fold. While you are a big dog to flop 2 pair or better you are only about a 2.7-1 dog to flop either 2 pair, trips, OE str draw or flush draw or better. In position on the OR I'd rather 3 bet pre than fold.
The problem is that almost all of that 2.7:1 is a draw, not a made hand. Loose passive fish don't raise in EP with much beyond QQ+, AK. Hero can't really call a 3bet pf. Clearly he had AK this time, but if he had KK, he'd bet harder than 50, more like 100. Hero has to chase with diminishing potential rewards for hitting with the OR this short. And 1/2 of that draw is blindingly obvious to even the biggest fish. I just don't think you get paid off enough to justify it.
5/10 - top two on wet board, facing a cold 4-bet Quote
03-07-2012 , 02:08 AM
close but leaning towards folding.
5/10 - top two on wet board, facing a cold 4-bet Quote
03-07-2012 , 06:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NewLiveFish
The problem is that almost all of that 2.7:1 is a draw, not a made hand. Loose passive fish don't raise in EP with much beyond QQ+, AK. Hero can't really call a 3bet pf. Clearly he had AK this time, but if he had KK, he'd bet harder than 50, more like 100. Hero has to chase with diminishing potential rewards for hitting with the OR this short. And 1/2 of that draw is blindingly obvious to even the biggest fish. I just don't think you get paid off enough to justify it.
I think you are right on not getting paid off enough (overlooked the "with $500" in OP). Problem with posting after a couple of glasses of wine But not sure that even if the draw is blindingly obvious a loose passive fish with a big pair will get away if he has enough money pre to make the draw worth it.
5/10 - top two on wet board, facing a cold 4-bet Quote
03-07-2012 , 10:51 PM
People like OP tilt me as hell when they say "3bet" instead of raise postflop, that's the same with the idiots who say "i raise" when the pot is checked to them on the flop ROFL

As for the hand it's a fold, the worse hand in his range is like KJhh or AJhh so yeah combo draw, sets or 67/QJ
5/10 - top two on wet board, facing a cold 4-bet Quote
03-08-2012 , 12:20 AM
first of all, you raised, the other dude cold 3b, other than that looks like a good fold.
5/10 - top two on wet board, facing a cold 4-bet Quote
03-08-2012 , 03:41 AM
cold 3b = easy fold especially with this sizing.
5/10 - top two on wet board, facing a cold 4-bet Quote
03-10-2012 , 02:28 AM
Wp
5/10 - top two on wet board, facing a cold 4-bet Quote

      
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