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/10 missed NFD on the river bluff spot /10 missed NFD on the river bluff spot

12-31-2016 , 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by day'n'night
What are you talking about? How do you think I will play AA/KK/QQ/ AJ/ KJ/TJ/TT/JJ in this spot? 3bet GII on the flop? no I dont think so. Raise turn? no I dont think so...
I think you check back overpairs on river . Kinda hard to have Tx after flop action but possible I guess . Just think you get hero called a lot.

Last edited by BigPavelski; 12-31-2016 at 02:04 PM.
/10 missed NFD on the river bluff spot Quote
01-12-2017 , 12:43 AM
Realize it wasn't the focus of the hand but is this open standard MP 200bb?
/10 missed NFD on the river bluff spot Quote
01-12-2017 , 05:17 AM
It's loose in a tough game. In a soft game, opening it or limping it are both fine.
/10 missed NFD on the river bluff spot Quote
01-12-2017 , 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yermomgoes2college
Realize it wasn't the focus of the hand but is this open standard MP 200bb?
Standard. 200bb might not be the effective stack size with everyone.
/10 missed NFD on the river bluff spot Quote
01-12-2017 , 09:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton555
Checking back the flop would be very bad. You have the NFD combo that most wants to bet, so assuming you have a betting range at all, this should be a part of it.

I think I just fold turn. I'm not sure where you got that 38% number. He bets less than pot, so you only need to realize like 28% equity from the pot to call. You're drawing dead vs his value range and if you hit vs it then you will probably have to pay off a bet. So I don't see positive implied odds here for you, more like negative. This means you actually need significantly more than 28% to call the turn in actuality. It's a bummer that his semibluffs fold you off the best hand, but you have many many hands worth defending that are higher than Ah2h, including all your Jx, overpairs, etc. I'd call with AhQh though.

Betting river to fold out 98 doesn't seem worth it. I'd check back and hope he has KQ, and bluff with weaker heart hands than this but for a smaller amount like 1/3p.
ty, thought i was going crazy
/10 missed NFD on the river bluff spot Quote
01-16-2017 , 07:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton555
Checking back the flop would be very bad. You have the NFD combo that most wants to bet, so assuming you have a betting range at all, this should be a part of it.

I think I just fold turn.
I think its way too black and white to say checking back is very bad. If we want to build a strat where we can have river bluffraise ranges on hearts then we need to check back some hands like this. Like we don't necessarily want to cb 100% of our Ah + Broadwayx hands so if we check this back we can now raise a good balanced range on the river when the turn or river is a heart and villain barrels into us.

Checking back flop also lets us realize more equity if we think villain is going to make us 'correctly' fold A2hh on the turn when he c/r -> turn barrel.
/10 missed NFD on the river bluff spot Quote
01-17-2017 , 12:58 AM
There are better NFD combos for checking back flop. Namely AK AQ AJ A9. However, those are such equity monsters that I'd generally bet all NFDs in a live poker situation (I probably check the Ah9h combo for no other reason than to be fancy). I don't think a c/r + bet turn + board pairing turn happens quite often enough for you to tailor your betting strategy to optimizing that branch of the game tree.

Also, just because it's valuable to have the nuts when you're not supposed to have it (i.e. checking back this flop and hitting a nut flush on the turn or river), that doesn't necessitate slowplaying all nut hands and nut draws some % of the time in all spots. It can easily be (and usually is) max EV to fast play the hand from the start 100% of the time.

Last edited by Renton555; 01-17-2017 at 01:09 AM.
/10 missed NFD on the river bluff spot Quote
01-17-2017 , 07:58 PM
I see hands like this get checked back in the few good online pg&c threads I follow. Is that about range construction/balance/protection?

I think they would bet their broadway hearts but check back this one. Not positive but that seems to be the trend.
/10 missed NFD on the river bluff spot Quote
01-18-2017 , 07:39 AM
^online regs will check this back to some frequency depending on the c/r % of villain. People c/r flops MUCH more agressively only hence why this could be a frequency check back. Live games people c/r flop MUCH less agressively, and cbeting is probably a must.
/10 missed NFD on the river bluff spot Quote
01-18-2017 , 08:07 AM
I highly doubt a GTO sim would check this hand back a non-trivial % of the time. Again, there are better NFDs and FDs to check. Your checking back range will be plenty protected from checking back with 7h6h and stuff.
/10 missed NFD on the river bluff spot Quote
01-18-2017 , 08:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton555
I highly doubt a GTO sim would check this hand back a non-trivial % of the time. Again, there are better NFDs and FDs to check. Your checking back range will be plenty protected from checking back with 7h6h and stuff.
Good point.
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