Might be standard but I wanted to double check.

MP3 is 16/13/2.5. Pretty tight- folds BB 84%, 3 bets 2.7%. Rarey out of line.
Button is 17/14/2.6, 3 Bets 7.7%, much trickier.

I am pretty Tag, I don't 4 Bet a lot, but i did 4 bet/fold to the button once in the past hour.

No-Limit Hold'em, $4.00 BB (10 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP3 ($400)
CO ($400)
Button ($433.30)
SB ($1120.70)
Hero (BB) ($400)
UTG ($494)
UTG+1 ($413.70)
UTG+2 ($519.42)
MP1 ($85.50)
MP2 ($303.49)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q, Q
5 folds, MP3 raises $12, 1 fold, Button raises $44, 1 fold, Hero raises $116, MP3 raises $388 (All-In), [color=#666666][i]1 fold, Hero?

looks like a good hand to bluff with???

There's 560 in the pot and you have to call 284 more. If u think MP could shove AK, it's a call, otherwise it's a fold. I probably fold. Easy call had Button shoved instead.

Picture or GTFO.

if he is a good thinking player i might just snap this one off as he shoudl know you could be cold 4 betting a decent range in this spot as a squeeze

Ever Correct to 4 Bet/Fold QQ?

Yeah, when you are sure he got KK+

In this case, I am not sure he has not AK or JJ, so it is a snap call.

it is never correct to 4bet fold QQ for 100BB.

what i mean, is that QQ is a hand you 4bet for value, because you think he calls/shoves worse.

If you think your opponent folds everything you beat, and shoves everything else, then don't 4bet in the first place.

i dont mind this at all, id probably 4 bet a bit smaller, because its full ring, and they are going to respect any 4 bet size, and then 1/3rd pot most flops depedning on who called...i would fold if either of them raised me, calling the original 3 bettor is closer then calling original raiser

qq is the same as 66 here, i dont mind folding at all

this..


and shoot ur self if u folded imo.

How QQ is the same as 66 here? I think it's wrong because he definitely can have jacks. I agree that TT or lower pairs have exactly the same value but QQ have more value IMO.

You don't need him to have jacks sometimes, it's a EV+ call even vs QQ+/AK range. Easy call.

I think in FR, people are pretty nitty about hands they 5bet shove over TWO people. It's an easier call if the third party wasn't involved. Also considering most people don't 4bet fold. Finally, he only has $12 invested, so it's not like he's married to the pot. If villains 3bet is 2.7, not sure if there's enough room for AK in a 5 bet shove (not saying there isn't), esp with two to play. I don't think he can have jacks (because that would bring his 5 bet shove range to something very close to his 3 bet range). As Sparky mentioned, if he's a higher level thinker, he can shove light because the 4 bettor can be on a steal of the light 3 bettor, but OP implied he seemed straightforward.

The three thing I look for to call are: 1) AK in his range (most of you seem to think it is), 2) a somewhat tricky higher level thinker, 3) the type who could slowplay AA in this situation and just call to get the third party in (in which case his shoving range is weaker). Any one of the three would be good reason to call.

I think the assumption was that the original raiser would fold and you are trying to get it in vs the light 3 bettor. When Mr. Nitty shoves, it's not so clear what to do.

Tough decision
Probably better off not 4betting though

those people saying not to 4bet.. what do you do on non A or K flops. do you get it in? if so, then does that mean u don't put them on AA or KK anyways? meaning you should have just 4 bet pre?

if ur not getting it in, then i see what the guy meant by QQ being the same as 66, ur just set mining.

i myself would just 4 bet, get it in. but variance is killing me in this spot. not sure if it's right.

well sometimes he puts in money postflop with a draw/AK/worse hand and spazzes and stuff and you win a pot bigger than what you would have won if you just 4bet

I think the info you gain, rather cheaply with QQ by 4 betting, and the initiative it gives you if called/ ability to play perfectly and fold if shoved on makes it better then calling. calling this oop, is going to be a nightmare to play, tthis just seems like a fairly easy spot, to 4 bet get in with button, and insta fold if mp3 raises





as a former 6max player, who now plays mostly midstakes FR for a living, its truly amazing how much people ARENT bluffing here....especially with stats of MP3


Full ring plays sooo nitty in pots like this at the midstakes, you cannot get qq in here, especially if the original raisor 5 bets you, its just burning money......you can make a really small 4 bet, take control of the pot, and find out almost always where your at, because almost always mp3's hand is gonna be face up, its AA or KK only.....


unless the math says to call with qq, even when your close to 90+ percent certain MP3 would have aa/kk if he shoved, then i think everyone who says things like you shoudl never 4 bet fold certain hands, doesnt always understand how ridiculously polarized hands in FR can be with someone who plays mp3's stats, or understand the dynamics of how hands play postflop and the benifits of making a 4 bet here, as an iso raise if that makes any sense to gain the initiative/induce action, against the much more aggro 3 bettor while at teh same time, cheaply finding out what mp3 has, and reducing the horrible position youd have if you called, by putting more money in pre....