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3b pot OOP with low flop SPR- how do I play my range here? 3b pot OOP with low flop SPR- how do I play my range here?

01-21-2019 , 07:19 PM
5/5/10, 600eff
TAG UTG^40
Folds to Hero in BB, who 3b to 150
UTG calls

Flop (300): 862r

How do I play my range here? Likely 3b’ing a pretty narrow range of QQ+, AK, and some AQs, JJ. When V flats my 3b at 60bb effective, I think he has a lot of 88-JJ, maybe a few slowplayed KK/AA. Think he jams all AK and folds AQ-.

Do I just bet/jam my entire range? If he has mostly 88-JJ, I’m pretty balanced with 20ish combos of overpairs and 20ish combos of A-hi that still have about 25% equity. If he’s overcalling down with all his pocket pairs I think I can c/f some AKo without backdoors and balance that with checking some AA/KK. I can still get stacks in with slowplayed OPs due to low SPR.

Would like to hear everyone’s thoughts.
3b pot OOP with low flop SPR- how do I play my range here? Quote
01-21-2019 , 08:16 PM
[QUOTE=BreakEvenAt1-3;54742387]5/5/10, 600eff
TAG UTG^40
Folds to Hero in BB, who 3b to 150
UTG calls

Flop (300): 862r

How do I play my range here? Likely 3b’ing a pretty narrow range of QQ+, AK, and some AQs, JJ. When V flats my 3b at 60bb effective, I think he has a lot of 88-JJ, maybe a few slowplayed KK/AA. Think he jams all AK and folds AQ-.

Do I just bet/jam my entire range? /QUOTE]

Basically. SPR is less than 2 and you're going with any hand here. (QQ+, AK, mixed freq AQs/JJ that 3b pre).
3b pot OOP with low flop SPR- how do I play my range here? Quote
01-21-2019 , 08:40 PM
After reading through some threads, I must say this game and the thinking involved is different than what people are discussing here (smaller games). Especially since you’re arriving at the assumption he likely has 88-JJ or maybe the let you hang yourself holdings of AA/KK.

I would assume he has AK or QQ with the occasional AA. Just so different than your assumptions...very interesting.

Please, if anyone can comment on the vast difference in assumptions here.
3b pot OOP with low flop SPR- how do I play my range here? Quote
01-21-2019 , 09:22 PM
If you’re perceived range has AK and he’s going to call down on non- Axx and Kxx flops then I’d just exploitatively 3bet value only QQ+ and call with AK.

You’ve got no dead money to go after and the SPR will be so low you’re going to get called off with 25% equity. That way you can play pots versus his AQ, AJs, ATs, KQs, KJs range that will fold to a 3bet while underrepping your hand and causing him to value town himself when you both connect.
3b pot OOP with low flop SPR- how do I play my range here? Quote
01-21-2019 , 10:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal N.
Please, if anyone can comment on the vast difference in assumptions here.
It depends how good the opponent is. All we have to go on is TAG, but how I play these spots really depends what kind of range I put the guy on. In the OP hero puts him on 88-JJ, which is a fairly narrow range. I always apply a bit of a slop factor when ranging people, because even the nittiest of nits I've played 100 hours with will occasionally show up with 76s in weird spots like this.

The thing with this thread is the main question is flawed. OP is describing a situation where the opponents range and how they will play it are known, and is asking how to play his range balanced in this spot. The correct answer is he shouldn't be trying to play his range in a balanced way here. The idea behind playing balanced is it makes your opponent indifferent to how they play their range. In this case, they are always playing it the same way, so we can maximize EV by shoving all overpairs and checking all whiffs. Our opponent is making an unbalanced mistake by playing their whole range as a call here. We should be looking to exploit that.

OP already did the work that bet/jamming his entire range is fine here, and it is. But if V is as predictable as described, there is a more profitable line.
3b pot OOP with low flop SPR- how do I play my range here? Quote
01-21-2019 , 10:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koss
It depends how good the opponent is. All we have to go on is TAG, but how I play these spots really depends what kind of range I put the guy on. In the OP hero puts him on 88-JJ, which is a fairly narrow range. I always apply a bit of a slop factor when ranging people, because even the nittiest of nits I've played 100 hours with will occasionally show up with 76s in weird spots like this.

The thing with this thread is the main question is flawed. OP is describing a situation where the opponents range and how they will play it are known, and is asking how to play his range balanced in this spot. The correct answer is he shouldn't be trying to play his range in a balanced way here. The idea behind playing balanced is it makes your opponent indifferent to how they play their range. In this case, they are always playing it the same way, so we can maximize EV by shoving all overpairs and checking all whiffs. Our opponent is making an unbalanced mistake by playing their whole range as a call here. We should be looking to exploit that.

OP already did the work that bet/jamming his entire range is fine here, and it is. But if V is as predictable as described, there is a more profitable line.
I understand enough about what you’re saying to say it’s over my head. I just can’t go there intellectually at this point in life, haha. I really want to try though: the more profitable line would be to check fold whiffs?
3b pot OOP with low flop SPR- how do I play my range here? Quote
01-23-2019 , 02:11 AM
This is the problem with including 5/5/10 games under the mantle of "Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.".
3b pot OOP with low flop SPR- how do I play my range here? Quote
01-23-2019 , 03:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozsr
This is the problem with including 5/5/10 games under the mantle of "Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.".
Yes, why is this here?

Mods - can you move?
3b pot OOP with low flop SPR- how do I play my range here? Quote
01-23-2019 , 10:54 AM
They started 600 effective and were probably just straddling. Stop being such pointdexters.
3b pot OOP with low flop SPR- how do I play my range here? Quote
01-23-2019 , 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
If you’re perceived range has AK and he’s going to call down on non- Axx and Kxx flops then I’d just exploitatively 3bet value only QQ+ and call with AK.

You’ve got no dead money to go after and the SPR will be so low you’re going to get called off with 25% equity. That way you can play pots versus his AQ, AJs, ATs, KQs, KJs range that will fold to a 3bet while underrepping your hand and causing him to value town himself when you both connect.
Yikes - interesting thought but flatting OOP all AK combos just off the assumption that villain will call down any pair in a 3b pot on ragged run-outs is uber exploitative. I can see the case being made of flatting AKs being IP given we can float 1-2 bets with nut non-pair and BDFD on quite a few flop and turns. Villain is rather unknown and just seems like a TAG-gy Euro guy based on his mannerism and a sample size of 20ish hands. Using population reads, these players tend to be sticky postflop in general, but I can't confidently say this guy is 100% calling down with his one-pairs in this spot.

Not to mention it's important to have something that's not only QQ+ in my 100bb stackoff range, otherwise people can even fold QQ/AK anytime I 4b/5b shove (in theory anyways). My thought would be that I could take a less extreme approach and somewhat unbalance my range by c/f'ing some AK combos while mixing in some slowplayed flop checks with AA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koss
It depends how good the opponent is. All we have to go on is TAG, but how I play these spots really depends what kind of range I put the guy on. In the OP hero puts him on 88-JJ, which is a fairly narrow range. I always apply a bit of a slop factor when ranging people, because even the nittiest of nits I've played 100 hours with will occasionally show up with 76s in weird spots like this.

The thing with this thread is the main question is flawed. OP is describing a situation where the opponents range and how they will play it are known, and is asking how to play his range balanced in this spot. The correct answer is he shouldn't be trying to play his range in a balanced way here. The idea behind playing balanced is it makes your opponent indifferent to how they play their range. In this case, they are always playing it the same way, so we can maximize EV by shoving all overpairs and checking all whiffs. Our opponent is making an unbalanced mistake by playing their whole range as a call here. We should be looking to exploit that.

OP already did the work that bet/jamming his entire range is fine here, and it is. But if V is as predictable as described, there is a more profitable line.
Like I replied to Johnny above, I don't have a soul read on villain- I'm just making assumptions about their range and tendencies based on a limited sample size.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
They started 600 effective and were probably just straddling. Stop being such pointdexters.
Lol this...if you don't want to read this thread then don't click the link. LLSNL is much more active than the med-high stakes subforum, and I respect the opinion of a few people in here. It was a regular 5/5 game with a straddle BTW.
3b pot OOP with low flop SPR- how do I play my range here? Quote
01-23-2019 , 03:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BreakEvenAt1-3
Yikes - interesting thought but flatting OOP all AK combos just off the assumption that villain will call down any pair in a 3b pot on ragged run-outs is uber exploitative. I can see the case being made of flatting AKs being IP given we can float 1-2 bets with nut non-pair and BDFD on quite a few flop and turns. Villain is rather unknown and just seems like a TAG-gy Euro guy based on his mannerism and a sample size of 20ish hands. Using population reads, these players tend to be sticky postflop in general, but I can't confidently say this guy is 100% calling down with his one-pairs in this spot.
I'm operating on the assumption that a TAGgy V raise/calling UTG is going to defend postflop in a 1.5x SPR pot when there are no Aces or Kings on board which seems pretty reasonable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BreakEvenAt1-3
Not to mention it's important to have something that's not only QQ+ in my 100bb stackoff range, otherwise people can even fold QQ/AK anytime I 4b/5b shove (in theory anyways). My thought would be that I could take a less extreme approach and somewhat unbalance my range by c/f'ing some AK combos while mixing in some slowplayed flop checks with AA.
That's why I prefaced it's an exploitative adjustment. The whole point is you are ADJUSTING before he is. If he PERCEIVES you to have AK in your range then you don't need to actually have it until he adjusts. And given the rarity of this permutation you may go hundreds of hours, if not longer, before it ever comes up again.
3b pot OOP with low flop SPR- how do I play my range here? Quote
01-23-2019 , 05:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BreakEvenAt1-3
600eff
TAG UTG^40
Folds to Hero in BB, who 3b to 150
More pre this shallow, this narrow, vs UTG open. Zero bluffs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BreakEvenAt1-3
Likely 3b’ing a pretty narrow range of QQ+, AK, and some …
Yes
Quote:
Originally Posted by BreakEvenAt1-3
AQs
No, call.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BreakEvenAt1-3
...JJ
Yes
Quote:
Originally Posted by BreakEvenAt1-3
Do I just bet/jam my entire range?
Yes, all boards.
3b pot OOP with low flop SPR- how do I play my range here? Quote

      
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