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3-bet pot 4-handed vs LAGs 3-bet pot 4-handed vs LAGs

08-04-2011 , 04:17 AM
OK so was at one of the crazier tables I have played in a long time.

Villain 1 ($1000) - super LAG ATC player. I took stats on him. In 50 hands, he folded exactly 5 before the flop. Raised 12 and limped or limp/called the other 33. So his VPIP is 90 / 24. I never saw him limp / fold or fold to a raise or raise / fold to a 3-bet regardless of position. If he had any piece of the flop he would not fold to a c-bet. He ended up winning some huge pots with rags - cracking KK with 52o (called flop and turn on 654 board) and limping AA / flopping a set with the case ace and stacking an old nit with top two, etc. He also was good at picking up pots when nobody else connected.

Villain 2 ($300) - Moved from broken table in last orbit. Seems very active. He just re-bought after bluffing off his stack on KJJ9x board.

Villain 3 ($700) 50ish Asian guy. Recently moved from broken table. No real reads except he was fairly active, probably playing 1/3 of the pots in his first orbit.

Hero ($1300) Unknown to V2 and V3. Was playing TAG for the first 4 hours, hit some big hands and started playing a little more speculative hands to try to get a huge pot with V1.

Pre-flop: V1 limps UTG. V2 raises to $20. V3 flats. Hero has AJ. I decide to 3-bet to 60 to thin the field and play against V2. This does not go as expected as all villains call.

Flop ($250) A64 V1 checks. V2 checks. V3 checks. Hero bets $200. V1 calls. V2 folds. V3 calls.

Turn ($850): K V1 checks. V3 checks. Hero checks.

This is a very good card for me. It's unlikely to improve any hand that wasn't already beating me so I could bet. However, I think the pot is plenty big enough for a one pair hand 3-ways and probably have to fold to a raise so I check behind.

River ($850) J V1 checks. V3 bets $200. Hero?

Comments on all streets welcome.
3-bet pot 4-handed vs LAGs Quote
08-04-2011 , 04:36 AM
I don't like the 3bet before the flop. You say that villain doesn't fold ever, so why would think he will this time? As you should have expected, the others came along too. Flop looks fine to me. OTT, you are basically already committed vs V3, so unless you think V1 has you beat, I think you should probably bet to charge draws and get value from worse hands. And OTR V3 bets $200 with ~$240 left? I would probably shove. You now beat AQ which probably made up a large portion of his range up until this point.
3-bet pot 4-handed vs LAGs Quote
08-04-2011 , 06:33 AM
Seems like you said villian one was never folding to 3bets, so I don't understand why you thought this would get heads up?

Flop I like the bet/bet size. Seems standard. OTT I understand checking for some pot control, however I really don't like giving two lags a free card when draws seem to make up a huge portion of their range.
Also given you've been playing tagish, and 3bet pre, betting the K would make sense/ you can easily rep AK and infact that whats your hand looks like. Ultimately thats a choice of comfort, imo, of how envolved you want to get or how big of a pot you want to play with a one pair hand. I think you can make arguments either way.

On the river call. I don't see any value in raising your most likely only getting action if your beat.
3-bet pot 4-handed vs LAGs Quote
08-04-2011 , 08:49 AM
*grunch
I'm prob betting something OTT. AP I shove OTR.
3-bet pot 4-handed vs LAGs Quote
08-05-2011 , 04:05 AM
Why shove the river? Don't we fold out most hands that beat us? What are we expecting to call the river that we beat? Is it better to flat to induce V1 to call?
3-bet pot 4-handed vs LAGs Quote
08-05-2011 , 04:46 AM
just shove, the guy who bet 200 only has 160 more

although considering that idk what he could have that we beat
3-bet pot 4-handed vs LAGs Quote
08-05-2011 , 10:07 AM
Is this 2/5 or 1/2?
3-bet pot 4-handed vs LAGs Quote
08-05-2011 , 10:36 AM
3 bet too small. Sounds like the game i play in. Make it 100.
400/500 on turn to set up all in on non spade/8/2 river.
As played raise all in on river
3-bet pot 4-handed vs LAGs Quote
08-05-2011 , 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClubber
Villain 2 ($300) - Moved from broken table in last orbit. Seems very active. He just re-bought after bluffing off his stack on KJJ9x board.
If you want to get it heads up vs. this guy 3-bet to at least $100. Even then Villain 3 will be closing the action getting 225:80 and may come along with a pp.

V2 also sounds like he is getting the rest of his chips in with any piece of the flop - or with his pp. Can you fold when he donks a 763 two suited flop?
3-bet pot 4-handed vs LAGs Quote
08-05-2011 , 10:51 AM
As played the turn card is reason to bet not check. Once you get to that point charge the draws and hope one of these yo-yos doesn't have K4.
3-bet pot 4-handed vs LAGs Quote
08-05-2011 , 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClubber
Why shove the river? Don't we fold out most hands that beat us? What are we expecting to call the river that we beat? Is it better to flat to induce V1 to call?
Looks like a blocker bet from V3. Wouldn't he shove all his straights, sets and AK's? It would only be a 1/2 pot bet. An overcall from V1 would earn u $200 when u have a guaranteed $240 more from V3(he cant fold) and if ur losing to him he scoops anyway(u just lose less).
3-bet pot 4-handed vs LAGs Quote
08-05-2011 , 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClubber
Why shove the river? Don't we fold out most hands that beat us? What are we expecting to call the river that we beat? Is it better to flat to induce V1 to call?
I think you're focusing too far in the hand. I agree with the previous posters that the flop 3-bet and turn check were wrong. I don't even like AJo most of the time, though in the game you describe I would probably call and call a raise IP.

When you get to the turn, you talk about pot control. But, you 3bet pre and led the flop for a pretty big bet. You have already created a big pot and now you're changing you mind?

In short, you have played your hand inconsistently, changing your plan mid stream, for no apparent reason and have ended up confusing yourself.
3-bet pot 4-handed vs LAGs Quote
08-05-2011 , 02:23 PM
When I check the turn in these kind of bloated pots, its never for pot control and almost always for a villian lead out on the river that I can comfortably call, if I'm able to put villians on a specific range. It looks like you accomplished this with your check on the turn even if that wasn't your intentions.

Call, hope for a spazz overcall from v1. The only hand you will get called with if you shove that seems reasonable in their range is smaller aces up, which would be the top of their range.
3-bet pot 4-handed vs LAGs Quote

      
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