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3/5 NL: 77 facing big flop c/r 3/5 NL: 77 facing big flop c/r

03-19-2012 , 03:44 AM
3/5 NL live $500 max buyin, it's around 4am on a Saturday. Game has dwindled to 7 handed.

Hero ($650) is dealt 7 7 UTG and limps for $5. 2 limps behind (both cover), HJ ($175) raises to $25, CO ($400) calls, BTN folds, SB ($3k) calls, BB ($400) calls.

SB has been table captian, showing bluffs, running pretty hot, but seems like a very competent player, maybe a little too aggro in spots. Watched him c/c a $50 cbet with 89o with 1 player behind on a QQ5r flop, check check on a Qo turn and lead for $100 on a brick river and show the 9 high bluff.

Flop($150): 3 5 6

SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $75, 4 folds, SB thinks for a bit and pushes out $275. BB folds. Hero?
3/5 NL: 77 facing big flop c/r Quote
03-19-2012 , 04:09 AM
Normally, call sucks... raise or fold. Raise seems worse so fold.

You put yourself in a bad spot betting 75. Pretty weak and asking a player like this to bluff you with worse. If he could have 54 or 64 or 78 then I guess go with it.. That's pretty wishful thinking tho. I just go for a nitty fold in this spot and go for a weak w/ strong bet v him later on
3/5 NL: 77 facing big flop c/r Quote
03-19-2012 , 05:17 AM
Why did you lead out on this flop? Let's say you get called by two players behind. What's the plan OTT? I think leading out puts you in a really tough spot on later streets because of your position.

Checking is by far the best play. It lets you see what the PFR does, and how CO, SB and BB react. That's a lot of free information.

If HJ CBs and it's raised to you, it's an easy fold. If HJ CBs (shoves) and it's folded to you, I like min-raising and getting it HU with HJ AI.

As played, this is both a good and bad flop for 77. Good because we have additional equity with the GS, but bad because we're usually crushed when we face a c/r.

Having said that, villain is the type to have 34/54/64/4x/78 here. You beat all that, but he's not in bad shape at all. Of course, that also means he could have 35/36/56, a set, 24/47, OP...

How does SB see you as? What's your image? Has he seen you when you've been c/r before?

Ultimately, it's shove or fold and it's up to you to decide what to do. A lot of it depends on image. You're supposed to have a strong hand when you lead out, but maybe he thinks you're probing here with like A6 or even the hand you have. He's capable of bluff-raising here now that you folded out the field.

It's close, so without more info, I think only you can know what to do in this spot.
3/5 NL: 77 facing big flop c/r Quote
03-19-2012 , 06:18 AM
^^^ I agree with. First off, I like raising 77 UTG since it is 7-handed. That is unless there are players who are 3bet happy behind you. Obviously we don't want to get 3bet. Checking is the best play for all the reasons he stated. He is also right in that what really matters is what the SB thinks of YOU. If he is competent, he knows you're only going to have an overpair, set, two pair, OESD, or pair + GS. Correct me if I'm wrong. So If villain is competent, he'll know that you are going to have a pretty decent hand in this spot. This would make me lean heavily towards folding. You're not calling and shoving sounds dangerous.

So lets say you check and the HJ shoves. Well you haven't specified any of his playing tendencies so it's hard to calculate an equity against his range. If he is only shoving with an overpair in this spot, then you're a 3-1 dog. If it got folded to you, you'd be getting 2-1 on a call and thus should fold. If he is shoving with all his overcards also, then you could have as much as 61% equity. That is obviously shooting for the stars but shows how much of a difference there can be. Without any info, it is most likely he would only be shoving overpairs given that the pot is 6-ways. He has to figure cbetting with overcards is suicide.

So check the hand and hope to see a free turn. You were playing to set mine anyways so don't make this a huge pot. If you get action, fold unless it's cheap and note how the players played their hands.
3/5 NL: 77 facing big flop c/r Quote
03-19-2012 , 12:19 PM
yeah preflop opening to 25 is much better than limp/calling 25.

flop lead is pretty bad, spot where you are going to have a ton of crappy turn decisions if you get flatted and and sort of isn't really a great value bet, in that not a ton worse is calling and nothing better is folding.

and in a absolute sense your hand just isn't that strong 77 on that board in a multiway pot given preflop action isnt really that great a hand.

as played just fold.
3/5 NL: 77 facing big flop c/r Quote
03-19-2012 , 12:41 PM
You are likely facing an overpair and are drawing to 6 outs, muck your hand.

Also raise or fold PF, open limping is like 99.99% sub optimal
3/5 NL: 77 facing big flop c/r Quote
03-19-2012 , 12:50 PM
i also prefer a check on the flop and see what action develops. i think the best case scenario is to be heads up on the turn with original raiser....if turn card is a queen or lower i would lead out and try to take the hand down. worst case scenario is going to the turn with multiple opponents...would hope to improve or else i would fold.
3/5 NL: 77 facing big flop c/r Quote
03-19-2012 , 01:09 PM
C/c flop

As played fold. You don't want to go broke in this spot.

You could shove but sets, straights, and 2pair are all in his range, even 1 pair sd combos like 45. Flatting is terrible cause he's just going to put you all in on the turn.

Folding is best option IMO.
3/5 NL: 77 facing big flop c/r Quote
03-19-2012 , 03:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11t
Also raise or fold PF, open limping is like 99.99% sub optimal
I actually kind of disagree with this. LLS games tend to be pretty passive pre, so I think there's merit in limping and trying to see a cheap flop. Not to say that it's a great play, but I definitely don't think it's 99% sub-optimal. It's probably just standard at 3/5.

Certainly raising is fine, but I wouldn't say that it's raise or fold at all.
3/5 NL: 77 facing big flop c/r Quote
03-19-2012 , 07:12 PM
I actually think you took a very decent line.

Nothing wrong with limp/calling PF.

Nothing wrong with betting flop. If we check flop, are we supposed to c/f to a bet? I think c/f the flop is pretty bad... even c/c is ugly, because we won't know where we're at on the turn.

I like your line. But now it's time to fold.
3/5 NL: 77 facing big flop c/r Quote
03-19-2012 , 09:11 PM
Fold
But on a 456 board now that would be interesting
3/5 NL: 77 facing big flop c/r Quote

      
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