Context is a 5 handed, 2-5 cash game. I have 150BB. Villain has me covered and is a TAG (Seems like a reg).

I am UTG and make it 15 to go with 23 of hearts (I know this is not exactly a top ten hand, however, we are 5 handed and I believe my image is a TAG). Button flat calls. Flop comes k 10 9 all hearts (I flop a flush). I bet $25 and he calls. Turn is a J of hearts. I bet $50 and he calls. River is a J of clubs and I check. Villain bets a $100: Hero?

Afterthoughts: I probably could have made a 2/3 bet on the flop. I try to take the lead and bet (I don't think checking is much of an option here, correct me if I'm wrong). I am still getting 2-1 on the river but my opponent seems determined and the JJ could have helped him and I have no blockers to kxqh,qh10x, etc.

Welcome to the forum, OP. Please don't include results, including last action, as they bias people's responses.

I won't comment on river, as I saw results, but being 5-handed is not a reason to open this cheese. Fold pre. AP/ bet 3/4 pot to pot OTF, and if called never put another nickle into this pot, imo.

Turn is generally a check/fold and never a bet. Hard to get value out of worse.

Don’t bet the turn

Preflop is torching unless it's a crazy soft game. Bet the flop. As played easy turn check.

I disagree with Garick, if the turn and river brick, I would go for two streets of value.

23s is one of the worst hands in the game. You can find much better hands to bluff with, even 5 handed.

Flop bet is fine. You probably have the best hand but are happy to take it down right away. The board can really only get worse for you. Turn situation is a toss up between check/evaluate and betting. When the turn bet doesn't get a fold give up on the hand. Your turn bet is saying you have a big heart and easily could have a nut flush or straight flush and villain isn't giving up.

This sort of hand is exactly why you shouldn't play 23s. Much too often even when you catch a good flop you have the low end flush/straight and your hand is very vulnerable.

Really? I would go for three streets.

Agreed we can get 3 streets from top pair, sets etc

I believe Garick meant he wouldn't put another nickel in this pot because 4 hearts were on the board. Actually I'm positive that's what he meant.

Unfortunately there are only 2 streets after the flop. Miscommunications may abound throughout this thread. Not sure.

Just copy opening range charts and you can save a lot of money. 32s probably isn’t even a standard open on the BU. Zenith Poker has free ones, as well as a lot of other sites. Minor differences between them don’t matter that much.

I can play something terrible like 23o at times, but I'm planning on winning on a bluff. So 23, suited or not, is way better as a pre 3B squeeze than it is as a near min raise open with everyone at the table still to act behind you. With only 5 players in the hand, unless they are all completely unaware nits, the quality of hand to call or raise you is much lower than at a full ring.

As a 3B, your action at least smells of something powerful if you don't have a loosy-goosy image. A lot of players will fold to any c-bet after you 3B pre unless they hit the flop hard.

As you played it, your post flop bluff is not nearly as convincing.

If you are opening with that hoping to hit a winner miracle flop like 2P or better, you're only going to win about 2% of the time or 1 hand in 50.

$15 (your open) * 49 (number of times you lose) = $735

Do you really think you're going to win an average of $735 when you catch a miracle flop with 23? That just gets you to break even. And that assumes in all those lost pots you never stuck another chip in the pot hoping that a bluff or bottom 1P semi bluff would win.

"but it was suited", yeah, so what. How much did you enjoy flopping a flush with 23? Maybe you won this time, IDK, but you're going to lose way more than you win over the long haul.

Fold pre. Oh I have an image blah blah blah, it's just an excuse to play junk because you're bored.

Turn is the checkiest of checks. AP I fold river.

If you never play 3 hi from anywhere but the BB, you’ll almost certainly be doing it right.

This is a hand where the lesson is that we shouldn’t even be in this situation because we should never be opening this pre.

Especially if we are going to be betting this turn card.

AP EZ fold.


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My mistake, three streets at say 2/3 pot with a flush on say an offsuit 7 turn, offsuit 2 river is standard, I just haven’t put too much thought into how I play my three high flushes and didn’t think it through. Nothing wrong with mixing in a check vs some opponents but three streets isn’t too thin.

Uh, this is where math is completely idiotic. Hero has initiative and will often have position postflop. Villains will often never realize their equity and will generally fold the best hand on the flop (if not later in the hand). So while it may be a fair point that this hand is too weak for to be opening UTG, the math you posted is completely meaningless.

I misinterpreted it then.

Yeah, I could get behind betting a brick turn. We might be value cutting ourselves against a better flush, but we should get a lot of value from AhX.

I would not bet river even if it bricked with the lowest possible flush against any but the weakest of opponents. What do we think will call?

I love the internet!

You do realize you just agreed with me that the OP has to be playing 23 to win on a bluff, while saying that the math that proves that point is "idiotic" and "completely meaningless"?

If we disagree anywhere, I think you are saying that a near min raise UTG looks powerful enough that it can win with a c-bet often enough to be a net positive. While I would rather use that hand as a very rare 3B squeeze where I'm more likely to play out IP and some players have already folded and/or there are callers who have shown they do not have a strong enough hand to 3B.

You tell me, which hand looks stronger with better chances of winning on a post flop c-bet, the 3bb raise UTG or something a 13bb 3B in a later position against the 3bb opener and one caller?

Top pair, two pair, trips if the board pairs, straight; you're too MUBS

If you are regularly playing against Vs who will pay off three streets of bets on a monotone flop with TP, you are playing in better games than I do.

I mean, there are a couple of specific Vs I would target for a third bet, but they are very specific idiots.

You're either playing in the toughest LLSNL games or have MUBS

Garick probably has a pretty tight image compared to us but still if you bet small you should be pricing in players to call with worse.

MUBS has nothing to do with it. Vs will call a to see the next card on a monotone flop/3-flush turn if they have a big card of the flush suit, but they rarely will pay off three streets without the flush. It doesn't matter that they rarely actually have a flush OTR. It only matters what their calling (or raising) range looks like. And if their calling range is more than half flushes, we lose to all of them, so we are value cutting ourselves if we bet the third street.

We could consider betting small, but again it's V dependent. Some Vs will raise river with the NF blocker when they sense weakness.

I've never seen a non pro do this, and even then it's super rare