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2/5NLHE Two sets versus same Villain. 2/5NLHE Two sets versus same Villain.

08-16-2014 , 11:32 AM
Table Dynamics: The game has just started recently and has been playing kinda tight, although people seem to be loosening up bit as players start to lose/win some big pots.

Hero (Covers) is a mid 20's white guy. Known to almost everyone at the table/room. Probably seen as a winner, although I'm not sure what this guy thinks of me. I had not done anything to compromise my image at this point.

Villain is a quite white guy, probably in his 40s. He wears big head phones and says very little at the table. He is frequently looking at things on his phone when he's not in the hand, so I imagine he misses most of what is going on. Over all he plays quite tight pre-flop, only raising premiums, but limp calling a wider range. Also plays tight post-flop. I hand been watching him in a previous recent session and observed that Villain seems to like to c/r with his nutted/two pair+ type hands and lead or c/c with his tp type hands. I have never seen him get caught bluffing or playing a draw fast.

He played a hand in a previous session where he held 76dd in a 5 way raised pot. The flop was Th9h8c and Villain check 2nd to last to act after the PFR had checked. Lucky for him the tight asian lady bet and there was a raise from EP and they got it in 3 ways versus like 99 and XX, board bricked and the straight won. I had also seen him c/r with J9 on a KJ9 board board and get it in for like $600-$700 versus a player with QT and boated OTR.

Hand #1:

Hero is in the BB and is dealt: 55

Villain is in the SB and is sitting on ~$840, Hero covers.

Pre-flop:
MP straddles for $10, 3 calls including Villain in the SB, Hero calls, 1 more call, straddle checks. We go to the flop 6-ways.

Flop (~$53): 579
Villain checks, Hero leads $45, 1 call from LP, Villain calls.

Turn (~$188): J
Villain checks, Hero bets $110, LP folds, Villain announces "All-in", Hero pukes a little... ~$675 more to call.

Hand #2:

Hero is in the BB and is dealt QQ

Villain is in the SB with ~$875. Hero again covers.

Pre-flop:
3 limpers, Villain in the SB completes, Hero raises to $35, only Villain calls.

Flop (~$78): KJ6
Villain checks, Hero checks.

Turn (~$78): Q
Villain checks, Hero bets $50, Villain calls.

River (~$178): 3
Villain leads $125, Hero...?
2/5NLHE Two sets versus same Villain. Quote
08-16-2014 , 11:46 AM
Hand 1:
Obv V could have 86 or T8 or even better sets, but you've seen V do this two times with less than nutted hands, so I think you're forced to call here.

Hand 2:
I'm pretty confused on this hand. V's stop and go on a meaningless river is strange to me. I just don't know how many calls you're getting from KQ/KJ/QJ if you raise and you're probably going to hate life if you get shoved on. Although it sounds nitty, I think I'm just calling here. If you told me you raised to 275 and folded to shoves, I wouldn't think that was terrible either.
2/5NLHE Two sets versus same Villain. Quote
08-16-2014 , 12:21 PM
I agree the first hand is tougher and given that V could play J9,J7, AJ this way I wouldnt hate a call or a fold leaning towards call, I would try to make a soul read at that time. I would have to evaluate why V would overshove that much with a straight.

I think how I play the second hand would depend on how I played that first hand.
But the hand in a vacuum, im raising for value and folding to shove unless I think that V would raise/shove with non nutted hands.
2/5NLHE Two sets versus same Villain. Quote
08-16-2014 , 12:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chokeholdem
I agree the first hand is tougher and given that V could play J9,J7, AJ this way I wouldnt hate a call or a fold leaning towards call, I would try to make a soul read at that time. I would have to evaluate why V would overshove that much with a straight.

I think how I play the second hand would depend on how I played that first hand.
But the hand in a vacuum, im raising for value and folding to shove unless I think that V would raise/shove with non nutted hands.
FWIW I think that Villain shows up here with AJ, even AJdd like almost never. This guy is pretty nitty with one pair I think. Not even sure he would call with J7 OTF.
2/5NLHE Two sets versus same Villain. Quote
08-16-2014 , 12:38 PM
Given the hand #2 stack sizes, im assuming you folded, unless it happened much later?
You have a better read in the situation than anyone here, and if J9 or bigger sets, straights are what you expect then I guess you can get your money in better situations, possibly like hand #2.
2/5NLHE Two sets versus same Villain. Quote
08-17-2014 , 12:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DUCYdonk
Hand 1:
Obv V could have 86 or T8 or even better sets, but you've seen V do this two times with less than nutted hands, so I think you're forced to call here.

Hand 2:
I'm pretty confused on this hand. V's stop and go on a meaningless river is strange to me. I just don't know how many calls you're getting from KQ/KJ/QJ if you raise and you're probably going to hate life if you get shoved on. Although it sounds nitty, I think I'm just calling here. If you told me you raised to 275 and folded to shoves, I wouldn't think that was terrible either.
Yeah, the stop and go had me confused too. I think this is the type of player that would just pretty much shrug snap call a raise with KQ/KJ/QJ. I was also thinking that if he had a straight, he would try to c/r because... well thats what I've sen him do every other time he had a strong hand.
2/5NLHE Two sets versus same Villain. Quote
08-20-2014 , 10:17 AM
Bump!
2/5NLHE Two sets versus same Villain. Quote
08-20-2014 , 10:37 AM
I can't see him going all in with a hand that you beat. If he did this with two pair, more power to him. It might be weak, but I fold.

Second hand I can easily see him having two pair. I really want to raise here. I'm not sure why he didn't raise turn, though, with two pair, but I really think a set of queens is good here. However, does raising accomplish anything? If he re-raises is it always a straight?

If I don't overthink it, I'm folding first hand and raising second.
2/5NLHE Two sets versus same Villain. Quote
08-20-2014 , 10:38 AM
Hand 1 is tough. With your read, I assume he is doing this with only value hands, and against value hands, basically any reasonable 2p+, you have 38% equity and you are getting 38.3% pot odds to call here ($675 to win $1083).


Board: 5d 7c 9d Jh
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 38.745% 38.74% 00.00% 358 0.00 { 5c5h }
Hand 1: 61.255% 61.26% 00.00% 566 0.00 { 99, 77, J9s, J7s, T8s, 97s, 86s, 75s }

Honestly I'm fine with a fold or a call here based on your soul read of the guy. Cool hand.

Hand 2 seems easier. I am raising small for value on the river, targeting two-pair hands, and then folding to a shove. Probably raising to $300ish. If he folds that is fine too, there is some value in not having to show down your hand.
2/5NLHE Two sets versus same Villain. Quote
08-20-2014 , 11:51 AM
expanding on preflop at all if you can would be good, esp since ppl have very different ideas of what a tight SB completing range in a straddle pot looks like at 2/5, and bc its very odd to have a SB complete/call 7x raise range as well.

hand 1: against {J9s, T8s} you are getting barely the right price to call. if you add os combos, it gets a little better, but that could be wishful thinking. it seems like given your read, he is unlikely to flat many nutted/2p combos otf, especially since its wet and multiway, so the range you see ott is probably not going to look much different than just top 2/nut straight. its probably close to neutral ev to call with these assumptions, so you prob just have to decide if this sizing is disproportionately more likely to be 2p vs a straight for some reason, or maybe just base it on some lolive stuff, or just flip a coin or gambol.

hand 2: kinda sucks because calling seems super nitty, but you also block a ton of hands that you want him to b/c with and block none of his straight combos, so flatting might be best here. this one is just particularly odd bc of preflop, so guessing at whether he would complete/call 7x with KJo/QJo/ATo for instance would be really helpful. theres also a non-zero chance that he turned a bdfd and bricked, and obv raising doesnt help vs that part of his range.
2/5NLHE Two sets versus same Villain. Quote
08-20-2014 , 12:07 PM
Some JJ combos have to be in Villain's range in Hand 1 also, no? I just can't construct a reasonable range against which calling is very +EV. Agree with the above poster that it's mostly J9/T8; he's unlikely to flat other made hands otf that are monsters ott, and unlikely to semibluff draws ott.

Hand 2 seems like a pretty straightforward raise/fold spot, though I also would like to have a better understanding of his range from pf. Can he have all the broadway 2 pair combos? All the straight combos? K3s?
2/5NLHE Two sets versus same Villain. Quote
08-20-2014 , 12:29 PM
Hand 1 is pretty hard tbh. This might be easy way out for me but it's basically a flip here so it all depends on your read at the table. I won't doubt you either way.

Hand 2 only thing I would change is to bet flop for sure. We have to charge all his and hands which will almost always continue along with AQ type hands. Basically I don't think he's folding anything on flop that has any piece of it.
2/5NLHE Two sets versus same Villain. Quote
08-20-2014 , 02:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MK7749
Hand 1 is pretty hard tbh. This might be easy way out for me but it's basically a flip here so it all depends on your read at the table. I won't doubt you either way.

Hand 2 only thing I would change is to bet flop for sure. We have to charge all his and hands which will almost always continue along with AQ type hands. Basically I don't think he's folding anything on flop that has any piece of it.
Yeah, I would usually bet that flop, but this was one time that I decided to switch it up a bit. I didn't think the board was that bad for this type of play. Although in retrospect, I'm not sure what I accomplish by checking except giving a free card. I guess I could get some lighter calls OTT and OTR, but I don't really expect Villain to do whole lot of bluffing.
2/5NLHE Two sets versus same Villain. Quote
08-20-2014 , 03:53 PM
In your villain description you state the he likes to c/r with nutted hands. He has has seen you fearlessly bet two streets in hand one, and check raises raise bombs the the turn. I can see where you might want to call, but I think it's a fold. He is likely only doing this the nut straight. I think he raises smaller with 2pr or even the bottom straight.

Hand 2 you can raise for value easily looking for a call from 2pr hands. If he re raises it's a fold as he is only doing that with straights. There is nothing for him to think you have a set of Qs.
2/5NLHE Two sets versus same Villain. Quote

      
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