2/5NL: KQ makes top pair, gets c/r on super dry board, more heat on turn and river - Page 3 - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

Two Plus Two Forums Poker Strategy Live No-Limit Hold’em Cash

2/5NL: KQ makes top pair, gets c/r on super dry board, more heat on turn and river

Post Reply Subscribe

...

Page 3 of 3

1 2 3

Page 3 of 3

1 2 3

07-05-2018 , 05:28 PM

#51

wj94

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 8,103

Quote:

Originally Posted by dth123451

Do not agree with the now very widespread belief that sizing down is basically always right on dry boards. Most 2/5 players don't know what you're doing and do stuff like this hand, reading "weakness."

It's not always right, mixing it up is fine. I can get behind a check, a small bet, a half pot bet, or a 3/4 pot bet on the flop. On such a dry board I would expect folds from most hands to a larger bet though, i don't mind V's continuing with backdoor stuff and gutters versus a smaller sizing.

Quote

07-05-2018 , 05:43 PM

#52

robert_utk

Not From the UK

Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 4,838

I think it helps to use the term “wants action”. Most of hero range here does not want this much action. Calling the checkraise to see a turn and avoid being exploitable is fine, no problem. But the hands hero can hold on the flop, and call turn and river unimproved are QQ 88 AA maybe KK. Anything weaker is just bluff catching. Bluff catching is fine as well, but needs a good read. Otherwise, we fold turn or river.

Remember the threads about “how can I get top pair to stack off when I am oop with a set?” Answer: bet-bet-bet

Quote

07-05-2018 , 07:19 PM

#53

wj94

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 8,103

Results:

Spoiler:

Quote

07-05-2018 , 07:20 PM

#54

Playbig2000

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 13,425

Quote:

Originally Posted by wj94

i'm pretty sure V is 3b AQ pre vs my LP open. If you have AQ in V's spot and decide to flat pre, c/r flop, bet turn, aren't you getting pretty nervous that you're beat by the river and shut it down instead of firing another $450?

How can you be pretty sure he 3bets AQ? Isn't he an unknown who just sat down

Quote:

Originally Posted by wj94

V ($1000): Younger Asian guy, just sat down about an orbit ago, haven't seen him play any hands yet.

That's a pretty strong assumption to eliminate AQ in his range because he flatted, not that I think AQ is a huge chunk of his range but it's not out of the question.

Quote

07-05-2018 , 07:26 PM

#55

wj94

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 8,103

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playbig2000

How can you be pretty sure he 3bets AQ? Isn't he an unknown who just sat down

That's a pretty strong assumption to eliminate AQ in his range because he flatted, not that I think AQ is a huge chunk of his range but it's not out of the question.

He’s a young Asian guy. They always 3b AQ vs LP open and button call

Quote

07-05-2018 , 07:27 PM

#56

Playbig2000

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 13,425

Quote:

Originally Posted by wj94

He’s a young Asian guy. They always 3b AQ vs LP open and button call

Quote

07-05-2018 , 07:45 PM

#57

SABR42

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 23,313

Quote:

Originally Posted by SABR42

I call and expect to see some LOL hands.

Duh.

Quote

07-05-2018 , 07:54 PM

#58

wj94

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 8,103

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playbig2000

Yes. Even if V did have AQ I doubt he would play it this way.

Quote

07-05-2018 , 08:09 PM

#59

SABR42

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 23,313

AQ does not bet this hard because it doesn't beat KK and AA.

Villain is polarized to hands that beat AA (basically sets) or airball.

Good rule of thumb is that anytime villain's sizing looks like he's a button clicker, and you have a good bluff catcher, you click call.

Quote

07-05-2018 , 08:14 PM

#60

Playbig2000

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 13,425

Quote:

Originally Posted by wj94

Yes. Even if V did have AQ I doubt he would play it this way.

I'm not trying to say he has AQ, that wasn't the point. I'm saying you shouldn't assume someone will always 3bet AQ pre. Most recreational players will always flat, even a lot of players who call themselves a pro will flat AQ pre.

Quote

07-05-2018 , 08:16 PM

#61

SABR42

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 23,313

And fwiw flatting AQ is fairly common and standard if you choose to have a flatting range.

Quote

07-05-2018 , 08:53 PM

#62

Mr Spyutastic

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 15,531

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avaritia

Fold flop face up. This isn’t hard guys.

Get it in on the flop and then turn your hand face up like a real boss.

Quote

07-05-2018 , 09:08 PM

#63

wj94

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 8,103

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playbig2000

Obviously anything is possible but I think we can heavily discount him having AQ and then choosing to play it this way if he did have it.

Quote

07-05-2018 , 10:44 PM

#64

johnnyBuz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 7,699

Where do you play that people will bluff with virtually no equity once you call the initial flop x/r?

If he wanted to get aggro he should have just 3bet pre.

Quote

07-05-2018 , 10:57 PM

#65

Calldown88

grinder

Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 500

I think call flop or fold flop are both reasonable in this spot. Villain being young and Asian is actually a big factor in that, lol. I think if you call all the way down like you did, you're just going to get ripped apart more often than not.

I think call the flop, look to fold turn is a generally good option in this spot against v's who are capable of putting in a bluff here. A lot of the time they'll just give up when you call the flop c/r.

Quote

07-06-2018 , 01:28 PM

#66

Tsunami11

journeyman

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 235

Quote:

Originally Posted by wj94

Results:

Spoiler:

OMFG...you need to play this game everyday. What was your rationale for calling? I think there has been plenty of great arguments for folding. Unless I missed it?

Quote

07-06-2018 , 03:40 PM

#67

wj94

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 8,103

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsunami11

OMFG...you need to play this game everyday. What was your rationale for calling? I think there has been plenty of great arguments for folding. Unless I missed it?

I just thought his only value hands are 88 and 33, it’s hard to flop sets, and most people wouldn’t c/r so large on such a dry board with those hands. They usually go for the c/c flop c/r turn line

I don’t put too much stock in live tells but the fast verbal bet on the river seemed like weakness. The board pairing counterfeits some of his value hands so he should be stopping to think about that before betting usually.

Quote

07-06-2018 , 06:47 PM

#68

jc315

adept

Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 1,049

@wj94 - it seems like, for the most part, in LLSNL when players are being aggressive postflop and repping a very narrow range, they have it. as played i probably would've called river too. but i think i just fold flop and not think too much about it.

even the young aggro looking kids - they also tend to have it the majority of the time too. they just like to make it seem like they are sick players who are bluffing a ton.

Quote

07-06-2018 , 07:18 PM

#69

Badreg2017

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 1,686

Against most people I feel comfortable folding flop but calling is obviously reasonable. Your flop calling range is so strong on this board though that he would have to be pretty sick to just barrel off here. When you call flop you have AA/KK/QQ/AQ and maybe 88/33/Q8s. Calling flop to fold a brick turn obviously blows but seems justified here, we are much lower in our range at this point in a spot where most people aren’t barreling off.

Agree with Johnny that checking back flop often makes sense and I could go either way depending on image and villains involved.

I assume you got to see his hand because you called. Nice call...I think...

Last edited by Badreg2017; 07-06-2018 at 07:24 PM.

Quote

07-06-2018 , 07:40 PM

#70

XXX555666

Guest

Posts: n/a

I think I call flop and turn. River is kinda weird. Only really repping 33 and 88. Could have AQ SOME of the time but I’m inclined to think he would 3 bet this pre a fair majority of the time and going for 3 streets of value seems very thin.

Hmm tough spot overall.

He basically should never be check raising this dry of a board ever.

He could have 9/10 some times as well I suppose

Quote

07-06-2018 , 09:27 PM

#71

wj94

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 8,103

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badreg2017

I agree that folding versus most players on the flop is fine because they are so unbalanced and weighted towards value, but his massive sizing felt so much more like a bluff than value, especially on this board where his value range is so small.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard32

Pretty much my thoughts...

Quote

Page 3 of 3

First

1 2 3

Last

Post Reply Subscribe

...

Page 3 of 3

First

1 2 3

Last