2/5NL Agro snap overships turn - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

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2/5NL Agro snap overships turn

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12-08-2016 , 11:55 AM

nihcnahtan

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 145

2/5 live full ring 500 max bi

Hero (BB): Sat down 30 mins ago. Reg image ~ 500
Villain (BTN): Rural white guy with a mullet. Doesn't seem farmiliar with live play. In a very chirpy mood and partly drunk. Has a very messy chip stack. ~2500

Pre ($7)
1 limp. V raises $20. Hero w/ Q

3bets to $70 (on the smaller side but I thought V was opening a wide range). V snap calls.

Flop ($142)
8

Hero cbets $85. V calls.

Turn ($312)
K

Hero checks. V snap ships for $345. Hero??

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12-08-2016 , 12:06 PM

Playbig2000

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,502

fold ainecaa

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12-08-2016 , 12:12 PM

keybattle

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 665

Bigger on the flop. Turn is nasty. Reads can be helpful. Against Aggro, I prefer call

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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12-08-2016 , 12:52 PM

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,869

Have you seen a hand he's played in 30 min.? He is sitting on 500 bbs!

W/o more info, I fold.

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12-08-2016 , 12:55 PM

Avaritia

Confirmed 2500 hour haver

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 12,248

3bet bigger
cbet bigger
Jam turn yourself
As played, snap call

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12-08-2016 , 01:20 PM

br3nt00

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 3,664

Ya given villain description I prolly call here but it would be nice to know a bit how villain plays

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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12-08-2016 , 01:28 PM

Lurshy

veteran

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,001

Seems like an ez fold. Mama once told me: Never call off an overbet chk raise with 2nd pair to a semi-drunk guy with lots of chips and a mullet.

Mama is always right.

He is acting a fool and trying to bait you...

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12-08-2016 , 01:38 PM

Jay S

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,460

Some reads on V's actual play over the past 30 minutes would be helpful. A drunk-seeming redneck with messy chips and 500 BB might be a A) a maniac on a heater or B) a nit whose big hands get paid off more often because he's a drunk-seeming redneck with messy chips.

If he's A, call. If he's B, fold.

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12-08-2016 , 01:40 PM

The Rumor

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 9,559

I would have bet way more on the flop to set up a shove turn

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12-08-2016 , 02:03 PM

#10

Ranma4703

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,099

I'm never folding here, so I guess the question is how fast we put the chips in? I'd wait like 10 seconds so he thinks we thought about folding.

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12-08-2016 , 02:08 PM

#11

Avaritia

Confirmed 2500 hour haver

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 12,248

You guys are way over thinking this. On that flop texture he's just going to be over bluffing way too much. The K changes nothing. It's actually a good card in the sense he might spew bluff it I guess.

Ramma, I do the same thing. Actually really important to never snap call imo, except vs someone you specifically want to tilt. But for the most part you don't want people second guessing their spew bluffs so it's good to never snap call with your bluff catchers.

Think about combos and ranges and stop thinking about mullets.

And I mean, if we are talking mullet strategy, the first chapter is probably "don't fold to dudes with mullets"

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12-08-2016 , 02:10 PM

#12

miajag

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 17,328

You guys sure seem eager to call off 70BB with a hand that can't beat top pair, without any meaningful reads.

Sure, this can be a snap-call sometimes depending on the opponent, but I don't see how we know enough here to speak authoritatively.

But, yeah, bet more on the flop. 115-125.

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12-08-2016 , 02:15 PM

#13

samo

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 4,252

I'd call, his >PSB after we show weakness looks more like JJ/TT. On the other hand, lack of familiarity with live poker may impact his sizing. Hard to say unless u saw something in 30 min.

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12-08-2016 , 02:19 PM

#14

nihcnahtan

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 145

Hey guys thanks for the advice, seems like there's conflicting viewpoints, what's the reasoning behind calling or folding. Would we still call in this spot if we had TT or even 99?

Also this might belong in the tells forum and I excluded becuase I wanted more mathematical reasoning but...

Turn ($312)
K

Hero checks. V snap ships for $345. Hero agonises for a full minute, then asks V "Will you show me if I fold?". V replies, "Definitely, 100% I'll show you!" enthusiastically.

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12-08-2016 , 02:20 PM

#15

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,869

Makes me want to fold more so I can see his hand with much less risk, but as a tell, who knows?

Have you not seen him play a hand in 30 minutes?

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12-08-2016 , 02:32 PM

#16

nihcnahtan

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 145

Quote:

Originally Posted by Javanewt

Makes me want to fold more so I can see his hand with much less risk, but as a tell, who knows?

Have you not seen him play a hand in 30 minutes?

Maybe 15-20 minutes is more accurate. If it's any help, just when I sat down I saw him pot the river in a $300 pot on AJT73r board and was called by AQ, V mucked.

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12-08-2016 , 02:35 PM

#17

Avaritia

Confirmed 2500 hour haver

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 12,248

OP, and everyone else concerned with "reads"

What is more important here.

That villain has a significant amount of semi bluff combos on a two tone 3 card one gap straight draw board

OR

That as he went all in, he listened to an oreo as he twisted it open with satisfaction.

Which area should garner more of our focus?

Counting combos and weighing the frequencies of lines he takes with both value and bluff combos

OR

Measuring the length of his mullet

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12-08-2016 , 02:35 PM

#18

miajag

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 17,328

OK, well given that HH calling seems fine

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12-08-2016 , 02:38 PM

#19

Javanewt

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 12,869

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avaritia

OP, and everyone else concerned with "reads"

The guy is sitting on 500bb, and I'd kind of like to know how he got it before I call off my stack with one pair, and it's second pair in a 3bet pot.

Knowing about the AQ hand definitely makes me lean toward a call.

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12-08-2016 , 02:43 PM

#20

iraisetoomuch

banned

Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 37,567

Grunch:

Only Kx that should be in villain range should be Kxhh.
So mostly just AKhh, KQhh, and KJhh.
Against a range that almost has to have a bunch of other non Kx heart draws (as well as a number of XXdd draws) if he has the KXhh, then this is seems like an annoying but correct call.

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12-08-2016 , 02:46 PM

#21

DeathCabForTootie

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 5,722

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avaritia

mullet length ldo

but seriously Ava brings up a good point. This is a fairly wet board with all sorts of semi-bluffing options for the villain. PLUS he's got a timing tell - if he was that strong wouldn't he take more than a millisecond to make a decision? AAAAAAAAAND, we have an SPR of 3.

All this makes me wanna call and feel pretty good about it. If he flips over Kx of hearts, what are ya gonna do?

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12-08-2016 , 02:53 PM

#22

Ranma4703

veteran

Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 3,099

QQ on 875fdK is not the same as QQ on 78Kfd5 after a flop bet. We don't really have second pair, we have an overpair.

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12-08-2016 , 03:03 PM

#23

GrandTheftOtto

journeyman

Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 197

Quote:

Originally Posted by nihcnahtan

2/5 live full ring 500 max bi

Hero (BB): Sat down 30 mins ago. Reg image ~ 500
Villain (BTN): Rural white guy with a mullet. Doesn't seem farmiliar with live play. In a very chirpy mood and partly drunk. Has a very messy chip stack. ~2500

Pre ($7)
1 limp. V raises $20. Hero w/ Q

3bets to $70 (on the smaller side but I thought V was opening a wide range). V snap calls.

Flop ($142)
8

Hero cbets $85. V calls.

Turn ($312)
K

Hero checks. V snap ships for $345. Hero??

I see what you did there.

As for the poker question: Call

Flop sizing is pretty good imo considering the texture and you being OOP.

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12-08-2016 , 04:03 PM

#24

Playbig2000

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 11,502

Quote:

Originally Posted by nihcnahtan

Maybe 15-20 minutes is more accurate. If it's any help, just when I sat down I saw him pot the river in a $300 pot on AJT73r board and was called by AQ, V mucked.

if it's any help? lol of course it helps. Why wouldn't it?

Wish you would have posted this in the OP because it changes things a lot, combined with the table talk and he's so willing to show if you fold, so now it becomes a call.

Earlier you only stated he's new to poker/live poker, and made a big bet which usually indicates a big hand, especially since the King had no bearing on him. Could have already made a set/two pair or a flopped straight. I still don't mind a fold but it's a lot closer to a call with the new leads.

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12-08-2016 , 05:56 PM

#25

Avaritia

Confirmed 2500 hour haver

Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 12,248

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrandTheftOtto

I see what you did there.

Amazing catch.

OP I think we need pics of mullet

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