Hero ($780) in MP: Late-20's reg, probably viewed as LAG-ish and maybe a little tilted since this hand happened almost right after this one - http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/17...on-ak-1393096/

V1 (~$2000) in HJ: Solid LAG in his 20's, tough to play against OOP, very good hand reader, 3b often in position. I was previously sitting on his immediate left and he seat changed to two on my left from the 9 seat to the 2 seat, so I'm pretty sure he did it just to get on my left.

V2 (~$1300ish) on button: TAG also in his 20's, got it in with V1 for 200bb on the flop with Q9 vs KT on a Q79 flop and V1 got there on the river hitting a J. In that hand V2 checks, V1 bet $40, V2 c/r to $120, V1 3b to $340, V2 shoves all-in, V1 snap calls.

Hero dealt 9T

One person limps, hero raises to $25, V1 and V2 flat, limper calls.

Flop ($107):

9T8

Limper checks, hero bets $60, V1 raises to $130, V2 flats the $130, limper folds. Hero?

I know you prob don't want to hear this but this is a resounding fold pre.

As played, simple range analysis. Tough spot but you got yourself in it by playing an implied odds hand OOP against good competition.

Why fold pre

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because he has an implied odds hand OOP against competent players. This is a recipe for disaster. I mean, look what happened. He flops a monster hand and still doesn't know what to do. Now he is just going to level himself into doing something bad because his opponents may think he is tilting. Just seems unnecessary to me and could be avoided completely by folding pre.

Plenty of fish at the table including the limper. Folding pre is ridiculous IMO...

If you say so but the above situation kinda says otherwise.

Maybe I should have asked the dealer what the flop was going to be, or requested a 9T2 rainbow flop instead. Anyways, fold pre isn't the answer, I'm never folding this pre after one limper with 150bb+ stacks.

This is a leak.

The rest of your post is ridiculous.

Perhaps I should just wait for aces. Are you really folding 9Ts in MP with these stack sizes facing just one limper? Is your MP opening range just 99+ and AQ+ or what? Limping is for suckers, so raise it is.

I am really confused right now, I thought pre was very standard...

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Nobody is helped by saying 'Fold Pre' when presented with a hand. Hero didn't fold pre. Now analyze.

I don't like significant aspects of each choice. And when I don't like significant aspects of each choice, I tend to just call because it closes the action and it lets me see another street.

Listen, I get it, you don't like my advice. I flat out said you weren't going to in my first post. The answer to your question though is yes, in this spot, with multiple competent and aggressive players to my left I am folding implied odds hands because of scenarios just like the one you are inquiring on.

This makes no sense. you cant just tell us to ignore all the mistakes that were made leading up to the "tough spot" and say give me an answer on what to do. The answer lies in the mistakes that lead to the tough spot. In this case its his pre flop selection.

would not those multiple competent and aggressive players be able to perceive your amazingly tight range and be able to adjust accordingly?

There is one aggressive player to my left. I'm not worried about the guy on the button. Next time I'll ask V1 if he plans on folding or not before I raise.

lol ok bro. Not sure why you are getting so offended here. I was just trying to help.

No offense taken, I just think saying "fold pre" with a hand that plays well multi-way, especially against the LAG's flatting range, is bad. He's folding 70% of the time anyway, so I'm not going to adjust my raising range just because he's on my left now.

Just because you're faced with a tough decision doesn't mean the action leading up to it was incorrect. Most of the time when you flop 2 pair on a coordinated board and it goes raise and call behind you with semi-deep stacks it's a difficult decision. This has nothing to do with our preflop hand selection so I don't really get your argument. Preflop are you folding JTs?JQs? KQs?etc. Just pretend you floped top 2 with one of these hands on a 3 straight flush draw board with the same action.

I think pre could go either way. If there was a read that the limper or a fish in the blinds plays bad postflop by folding too much or overvalues top pair type hands then I can see a raise.

As for the flop V1's sizing on this board texture looks nutted when compared to the previous hand history we have on him and there is some % of the time that V2 flats with a straight and there's going to be so many turn cards we don't like that I think folding is best.

KQs and QJs are totally different hands and hold way more value than 9T. When you make a pair with KQ or QJ you are more times than not going to make top pair and have the best hand where when you make a pair with 9T you are far less likely to have the best hand.

This is pretty much my thinking, too. The flop texture is about as bad as it can be for us, and I don't know where I am multi-way. I can come up with some scenario for one Villain to be one clubs and the other on a made straight/set with a couple of open-ended combos that could give use 33% equity, but it's a reach. I like a fold. If I find a call here, I'm pretty much jamming any non-/Q/6 turn, and even then I'm not real happy about it.

What do you suppose is the range for each villain?

We know that V1 is at least capable of making this play with worse made hands and good equity draws (ie 98, Ac8c, JT). He can definitely do this with hands that have less equity than he might realize (ie Ac4c, KQ). Do you think he would make a bigger raise with a better made hand because of the super wet board? Unless he's trying to induce, it seems odd to only raise it this much with QJ or a set.

Seems like V2 just has to be on some decent equity draw...I tend to picture a lot of flush draws in his range since he knows straight draws may have dirty outs.

Guessing you end up 3betting the flop, and the question is how much? Basically you don't want V2 to end up getting a great price to come along, and you want to set up a shove OTT?

^^^lol folding 9Tss pre is just ridiculous nit talk.

I don't mind the raise pre with 109s, its a good playing hand in a multi way, and I never will fault a player for being aggressive. The only thing I find that's a little spewy is that you did it in MP and not LP (which is my preference when I raise limped pots with SC).

109 is tough to play multi b/c when you hit 2 pair chances are some limp ass is going to have some kind of draw and now you're stuck in the middle between players who may raise before and after you...which is why I prefer to raise with SC pre in late position...but that's being nit picky.

As played, I'd probably raise with top two.

Wow. Thanks for writing this. I'll have to learn the strengths of other starting hands too before I go back to playing poker.