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2-5 TPTK Facing some aggression. Flop and Turn opinions sought.. 2-5 TPTK Facing some aggression. Flop and Turn opinions sought..

01-07-2011 , 05:32 PM
My thoughts on this hand is that it is really a super standard spot that OP turned into an extremely ugly spot due to some FPS/boredom/whatever you want to call it.

Contrary to what OP seems to believe, I can't truly believe that you think you were ahead on the flop. Or perhaps far enough ahead that you would actually want to try and induce someone to make a move on you? I totally agree with some of the other posters is that you have a mediocre hand, and would want to take it down without contest. But grats, it seems like you made more than the rest of us would have...

And given that you have the ace of spades, and you're facing check/raise aggression, that actually combinatorically REMOVES a lot of the nut flush combos that bad villains may check raise with, so in my eyes you're in much worse shape here than you seem to perceive yourself to be. As to you thinking someone checkraises here with QTo... I sincerely doubt it.

If you call on the flop, I don't think you are ever ahead. You are playing for a spade and representing the flush. And that's really what happened and villain folded. So from that extent you made a play and had the nut blocker if caught. But it tilts me to think that you actually think you did good and played the hand consistently from start to finish. Contrary to what other believe, I actually like shoving on any spade more than flatting, but that's because I think we need to bluff to win, while others seem to think we're actually ahead and bluff catching.
2-5 TPTK Facing some aggression. Flop and Turn opinions sought.. Quote
01-07-2011 , 06:10 PM
^this
2-5 TPTK Facing some aggression. Flop and Turn opinions sought.. Quote
01-07-2011 , 10:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by impressed
My thoughts on this hand is that it is really a super standard spot that OP turned into an extremely ugly spot due to some FPS/boredom/whatever you want to call it.

Contrary to what OP seems to believe, I can't truly believe that you think you were ahead on the flop. Or perhaps far enough ahead that you would actually want to try and induce someone to make a move on you? I totally agree with some of the other posters is that you have a mediocre hand, and would want to take it down without contest. But grats, it seems like you made more than the rest of us would have...

And given that you have the ace of spades, and you're facing check/raise aggression, that actually combinatorically REMOVES a lot of the nut flush combos that bad villains may check raise with, so in my eyes you're in much worse shape here than you seem to perceive yourself to be. As to you thinking someone checkraises here with QTo... I sincerely doubt it.

If you call on the flop, I don't think you are ever ahead. You are playing for a spade and representing the flush. And that's really what happened and villain folded. So from that extent you made a play and had the nut blocker if caught. But it tilts me to think that you actually think you did good and played the hand consistently from start to finish. Contrary to what other believe, I actually like shoving on any spade more than flatting, but that's because I think we need to bluff to win, while others seem to think we're actually ahead and bluff catching.
Ehhh... I still do truly believe I was ahead of this villain on the flop. What was I behind? T9 (top two pair) is the only hand that makes sense given the rest of the way the hand was played. If he had a set he's calling my turn raise because he's got the odds, or he's at least taking a moment to think about it. I'm not exaggerating when I say he turbo-mucked as I said all-in. I really think anything stronger than top pair takes a few seconds before folding that quick. If I happen to have been behind and accidentally turned my hand into a bluff (well, semi-bluff) then only a real terrible player folds the winning hand that quickly. I think villain was poor, not terrible.

I think you should be able to agree that my logic there is good. And I'm agreeing that there's a chance I was behind (though a tiny chance, IMO). And beyond that there's no point arguing because we're just speculating really.
2-5 TPTK Facing some aggression. Flop and Turn opinions sought.. Quote
01-07-2011 , 10:51 PM
Speculating is the whole point of this right?

My point and his is That trying to induce a bluff on This board is very wrong.
2-5 TPTK Facing some aggression. Flop and Turn opinions sought.. Quote
01-07-2011 , 11:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rizasutton
Speculating is the whole point of this right?

My point and his is That trying to induce a bluff on This board is very wrong.
And I wholeheartedly agree with that point...98% of the time. In this situation my estimation of villain said it was one of those 2% times where even though my hand is marginal I believed villain was a perfect candidate to induce a bluff from on a board that should be pretty scary for a tight raiser (from villain's POV).

Do you agree with my last point before about how if villain had me beat he can't just turbo-fold on the turn? Just curious..
2-5 TPTK Facing some aggression. Flop and Turn opinions sought.. Quote
01-07-2011 , 11:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Svizac
Everyone folded to us in CO, and we have AT. Folding preflop would be god-damn-awfull.

As played, flop is fine IMO and turn is a call.
This is my line of choice. Considering based on your OP that you bet $25 hoping to get Villain to raise then calling is pretty standard. I guess you could have 3-bet and taken down the pot there, but as for me I'm not quite at the point in my game.

Turn is an easy call considering the odds you are getting. I don't know that I like an All-In, mainly because we hold the A and have a decent redraw. If we miss then we can likely call a reasonable river bet on a non-scare card.
2-5 TPTK Facing some aggression. Flop and Turn opinions sought.. Quote
01-07-2011 , 11:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rizasutton
I'd prefer a fold pre.

But now we are there 25 is way to small with a very vulnerable hand...I bet half-3/4

You don't always need all three streets for value.

I'm happy to take it here

I also fold turn btw every draw he's raising now got there...or atleaat most.of them.

I THINK FOLDING pre is a bit too tight myself, but everything else here is spot on IMO.
2-5 TPTK Facing some aggression. Flop and Turn opinions sought.. Quote
01-07-2011 , 11:21 PM
i think we are ahead on flop, but not by a large margin. Thus call.

On turn we are drawing to a flush and thats that.
2-5 TPTK Facing some aggression. Flop and Turn opinions sought.. Quote
01-07-2011 , 11:25 PM
Ya in the beginning I thought we were utg then realized CO so I reneged my statement and said pre was fine
2-5 TPTK Facing some aggression. Flop and Turn opinions sought.. Quote
01-07-2011 , 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rizasutton
Ya in the beginning I thought we were utg then realized CO so I reneged my statement and said pre was fine

lol, i wondered riza, but wrote it off as a misclick.
2-5 TPTK Facing some aggression. Flop and Turn opinions sought.. Quote
01-08-2011 , 03:07 AM
Lol I appreciate that
2-5 TPTK Facing some aggression. Flop and Turn opinions sought.. Quote

      
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