I pretty much agree with Setsy.

So everyone knows - villain had Q high flush and called river bet. My bro lost hand. Its hard not have the result influence your opinion and I have known the result from the beginning. I still think I would have thought checking back river was best AP. Pretty much all of us agree that checking turn was pretty silly and I think it's part of what screws up our logic for the river. I just dont think betting the river AP accomplishes much. Not called by worse enough and ALWAYS called by better.

Good god no. the way the hand played out makes an even bigger reason to bet river. you have to bet this river and for straight up value. obv its a b/f looking to get value from all PP's, Kx, and weaker 8's.

that being said, i agree with you that the turn was a bet.

Before we chase one of the best posters we have out of the forum lets just take a minute and look at what he said. even if ANL doesnt give detailed responses as to exactly why he feels one way or the other you can take the little bit that he does give and then make further research on your own as to the why. At least you will now have the correct answer. aka knowing what X equals makes solving for X all the more possible.

You have to bet this river. If villain is really an internet player and knows hero can bet for thin value, he will look you up holding higher PPs.

Grunch
not sure who played the hand, you or your friend, but the thinking here is frankly totally off, forget about the line.
-calling trash w/ no plan or reason vs. most 2/5 fields sketchy at best. you would need to feel like you have massive steal equity after the flop, which you never have. if that even was the case, 3 bet obv.
-hit gin and stop shovelling $ into the pot OTT; bizarre is all i can say, since villians read on you PF could very well be as having air, and you get value from lots of hands, draws or not. you describe hero as LAG?? wat? don't buy it, lags don't become passive when they luckbox into the nuts. lag strategy is ALL about conditioning villians to give you max value when this kind of hand come up. THATS why lags give away $ PF.
-freeze on the river 'because you won't get called' has ZERO logic behind it. betting when you have a 1% chance of getting called by worse is infinately more profitable than checking, where you have a 0% chance.
it's an easy bet fold because villian is not capable of bluffcheckraisingraising river. if he doesn't call; fine, you get the value of not having to show. checking turn, river behind is just so gross. the chances of him checkraising the river with a boat or nut flush are close to zilch at this level. if he had those hands, he would have played it quite differently.(face up)
you have to be willing to occasionally value own yourself to make $, and i would'nt even be that concerned with that in this hand. if he calls sometimes with a small flush, so be it; thats the only hand i can imagine him playing this way, and ever beating you, and it's so unlikely.

Agreed. You will learn a ton from ANL posts

looks fine to me.

I did post the result of the hand. My brother bet the river (which I still don't like) and the guy called with a Q high flush. My brother lost the hand.

"Betting when you have a 1% chance of being called" is not always better, particularly when you are in a spot that 100% of the time you are called by better. Thinking he would call with a mid pp but maybe fold a small flush seems a tad bit weird too.

FWIW, this is a hand that I played (chunkOchips is my brother)...

Some notes about the hand... I was on the button (possibly cutoff) with Q8s, for everybody that thinks I should be insta-folding this hand, well, you have no idea how loose passive these games are. A button call of $20 with Q8s IMHO is definitely +EV.

We're both pretty deep - definitely over 200 BBs, probably 300-400 BBs. I saw his raise representing a huge range (anything from hands like 85s to AA -- he seemed to normally like to raise bigger with big hands, but I saw him open once to 15 with a big pocket pair, I think hoping to be 3bet). I think 4 of us saw the flop, maybe 5. Also, note that a $20 raise in this casino is pretty small. Players are allowed a $10 button straddle, max buyin is 200BBs, and it's not uncommon to see people open an unstraddle pot to $50-$55 pre and get several callers.

So yeah, my call pre with Q8s on the button is fine, and for anybody that thinks it isn't, well, you're wrong. FWIW, villain had Q9s, and I wouldn't doubt that the other people in the hand had hands like K5o.

When he bet the flop, I remember that he folded out everyone except maybe one other person -- this puts more bluffs in my range when I raised him.

Everybody is saying you have to bet the turn... Sure, I agree, normally I bet the turn. But after the K hits, I'm pretty sure I fold out his entire range except for 8x, AA, and Kx with a FD (and boats too of course). Maybe he peels another card with his blank FD, but I doubt it.

My assumption was that checking behind the turn was likely to induce a bluff if he was on a FD. Without any showdown value, I think he'd lead the river, possibly very strong, when he misses. And of course, I'd snap him off. Since he's going to miss the high majority of the time, and since I thought he's betting a high majority of the time, I'm pretty sure my check is ok. After my check on the turn, I think he's also likely to throw in a blocking bet with hands like 9s or maybe even try to value bet hands like Js or Qs+ on the river (if the flush doesn't hit).

I also didn't think this was someone who would check a flush when he hit. So when he checked again, I had to assume that he had some kind of pocket pair and was likely to make a crying call (people don't like to fold, and they especially don't like to fold when I bet -- I'm pretty aggro). 8x hands are also definitely in his range and will always call.

Also note that there was some history/leveling between villain and I at the table. I'm sure that in his mind my raise on the flop could be complete air, and my bet on the river could possibly be air as well (not that I'd play the hand that way with air, but a lot of people really have a tough time giving me credit, especially after I check a street).

Anyway, I think a check behind on the river is absolutely horrible. My game has improved vastly over the past year as I've been looking for thinner and thinner value, and really, betting trip 8s is not all that thin.

I'm happy with the way I played this hand.