2/5, 8 handed

V is a pro (plays 5 days a week for the 5- 7 years I've known him), very tight, not prone to gimmicky plays. He has $800.

Pot=$200
Brd1: KQ3r
Brd2: K66r

3 checks to V, he bets $100. 3 folds to me and I have AA with an $800 stack.

V most likely has a 6. Maybe a bare K but unlikely. Could have a set but only the extremely unlikely Kset scoops me. Any 6X means we currently are chopping. KQ or K3 would probably get him to make this bet, but that too is a probable pot chopper. There are no FDs and it's outside of V's range to lead with a SD on only one brd.

3 folds to me and as I ruminate, it's clear everyone else will fold.

Shove, raise, fold, call?

Very standard call. Will plan on putting more money in on turn or river.

Never folding, its very difficult for Hero to get scooped.

Why not jam here? If we are not concerned about about KK, then we are not concerned about KK. V might even fold a weak 6. Look at it this way, more than 1/3 of 6x hands are 6-(2,4,5,7,8). If you hold 64 here and opponent jams 8x in your face are you calling? Maybe, but it's not a slam dunk.

Double board holdem? What a dumb format. Aces are ridiculously strong unless both boards are very similar.

Two boards is not the only difference. Also no one folds preflop, there's an ante instead of blinds.

I think a call is the worst possible of all actions here.

Pot is $200 and I'm likely playing for half of that pot. DBBP is usually an AI game once it is heads up and this hand appears to be headed that way. So I'll be risking my entire 800 stack for a probable win of 100.

Well I am concerned about KK enough to think about it but it's so unlikely I'm discounting. If V was trying to build a pot for a big scoop, I think he would bet smaller.

In the moment I was thinking he would never fold a 6 to a jam, but that was my error. I don't think he can call off his whole stack with 62.

If he has KQ or K3, he may or may not defend with his whole stack, but those hands pretty much guarantee me B2.

You don't need to explain how DBBP works, I've played plenty and I've studied the strategy.

Folding flop would be awful, so if you think call is the worst option, maybe you should not play any DBBPs.

I haven't played this format, but I'd think we'd want to just get stacks in here.

Ok, what are you hoping to accomplish with the call? Based on the remaining players indicating folds, it's going to be heads up.

Are you trying to pot control?...hoping V will just check it down on turn and river?

Hero doesn't need to pot control. He only loses to KK. Call is the best way to extract value from kx. Ideally villain has a hand like ak or kj or even kq, and villain bets turn again.

If villains betting range is trips or better, it still doesn't make much of a difference whether Hero calls or raises on the flop.

OK, I see where you're going. I still think it is wrong, but not as que horrible that I thought prior. I think the only way V might commit big chips without a 6 is with a few hands such as KQ, Q3, and K3, QQ, 33 when he puts me on 6X.



I'm hoping someone would chime in with a mathematical answer. I'm thinking shove is correct bc of the ability to scoop the $300 now. The call is greatly increasing the probability a chop in which case H has risked $800 to win $100 and is potentially scooped by K6, Q6, or 36 or even X6 on a runner B1.

I think jamming is best. We actually have some fold equity. If I think I have one board close to locked up I’d rather be the one shoving.

do you have any calling range except kk or are you playing jam or fold otf?

I gave you the mathematical answer, you are just fixated on wanting to raise, even when call is clearly a reasonable option, even standard.

It's very easy to get stacks in after calling with SPR of <2 in the turn.

Even in regular NL, standard strategy is not to overprotect pocket pairs by shoving too early.

Maybe hero got unlucky and 6x caught well and scooped. But bomb pots are designed to create action. For example, I played a double board bomb pot where I got it in as a approx 10% net equity favorite, with a better chance to win opponents board (he had a set) vs my board.

Hero has 92.8% equity vs 6x on kq3 board.

Hero has 9.46% equity vs 6x on k66 board.

Villain almost never bets 50% pot with KK. Trying to maximize fold equity against 6x seems like way too narrow a focus. And even if Hero had a better 6, he would often want to call the flop and close the trap later. Or call and see if any additional players come along, etc.

Now we could try to solve for how often villain's weakest 6x hands fold to a jam, but I doubt villain folds 6x more than 20-25% at most. And since villain has the same number of 6x and kx hands in range, we should optimize our line against the part we make the most money against which is non 6s.

The strategy just isn't that interesting, generally there will be 3 bets at most, using geometric sizing and Hero has no reason to show how strong he is immediately.

Also, even if you think everyone is folding, if more players continue that is good news for you most of the time

I think that is the right answer. There is only one combo of one hand we're behind o both boards, and assuming V doesn't have KK, there aren't a lot of draws that can take V's weak board away from us.


H's hand can improve to beat V's 2P, but it's statistically irrelevant to beat 6X.

In DBBP, you generally don't want to call for draws unless you have a piece of both boards or you're really strong on one and you want to pot build and then jam the turn. Where people get killed in this game is playing for stacks heads up suck that they are putting in 1000 to chop the 200 starter pot. That's a fool's game. You're going to get sucked out eventually, so you have to be wining one side greater than 90% of the time to break even.



So yeah, jam or fold into an open is far more common than with a single brd game.


If I thought that one of the remaining players would call to add to the pot, I would have called.

First - Monikrazy, I sincerely thank you for helping me think this hand thru. When I'm pushing back, it's because I'm testing you and myself as to what is truly the best thought process in this situation.

your answers haven't given me any math. I see no EV calcs.

but that's absolutely what I don't want to happen. I want to scoop early or fold in this hand bc of the low odds I can beat both boards. This V **might** make his 100 bet with a bare K and I'm ahead, but that would be out of character for him. I think he must be better.

agreed for regular NL, but doesn't always apply with split pots. I want all of the pot, not half of it bc all of a small pot is a 3X larger win than a chop of a big pot.


Now we're talking math. Thanks. The remaining players have picked up cards to pitch them or has gone back to phone which is his standard fold posture. This is a heads up pot.


by far, V's most likely hand is 6X. I've watched him play for years. In fact, I'll do a half reveal, he was playing 6X. How does that change your thinking?

With 6 strong X, if I call, he shoves next.
6 mid X, I'm not sure
6 weak X, maybe I have FE.

The problem with trying to fold 6x with a shove is that Hero has little incentive to raise most value hands.

So let's give Hero a value range of aa, ak, kq,kj, kt, k3, qq, 33, and all 6s.

So a6, k6, q6, j6, t6, 96, 86, 76, 66, 65, 64, 63, 62.

A6, k6, q6 are crushing all other 6x and can scoop, so they don't even want to raise and risk other 6x folding.

66 can raise with one board locked down.

63, with trips on one board and bottom pair on the other, is a reasonable fast play candidate.

J6/t6 beat worse 6x but have no real incentive to raise either, and can also scoop.

So that leaves all the other 6x. Realistically, hero can raise other 6x at some frequency, but we are getting into complex theoryland. Especially because Hero is supposed to have a few bluff-raises. Also, weak 6s less likely to fold because sometimes they chop with other 6x on both high card boards.

Nicely thought out. Thanks.

He had 62 and would have folded to my shove, but of course, that's being results oriented.

I folded bc it was my last hand of the session and my guess was it would be heads up AI and I would rather drive 90 minutes home with a $500 win than a 300 loss on the day. I know that's not good poker maximization logic, but as a rec, logging the win was worth it.

The more I thought about it after the fact, the more I thought the shove was right.

You folded????? OMG. This is a dream NLHE bomb pot hand. Not sure why you even played it.

I am so glad you left.

I think if you took about 10 seconds to actually look at combos, there's literally only 3 (KK) that you are even remotely concerned about. And I don't think it's results oriented to say jam flop here. As I stated earlier in the thread almost 40% of 6x might fold to a jam. Scooping here on the flop is biggest win with very little risk.

How many kings are in the deck?

Here's the clear disconnect between you guys:

DEKE01 thinks he's basically drawing dead on board 2 vs. 6x and afraid of getting outdrawn on board 1. monikrazy shows that hero actually has more equity on board 2 vs. 6x than 6x has against him on board 1.

This was not the ending to the story that I expected. Was expecting to see shove and it went wrong.


I think you need to think a lot more about where that $200 in the pot is going, because even half of it is not nothing and you can't just fold or shove AA/KJ here. Also your logic that he folds flop with 62, but somehow gets all the money in happily later on seems bad.
Also did V actually should you 62, because I'm not sure bet50%/fold 62 is the play here either.

Yes, he showed 62