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2/5 NL live @ Sands 2/5 NL live @ Sands

08-29-2014 , 02:00 PM
Obviously the toughest spots are going to come with the least amount of information. In this spot I'm brand new to the table, only played one orbit.

Villain 1 BB: 35-50yr old Indian guy. 140bb stack. Ordering drinks (may or may not affect him but it was the first thing I noticed). Unfortunately that's all I got on him at the moment.

Villain 2 UTG1: 25-40yr old Asian kid. Short stacked (57bigs) legs up on the next chair relaxing.

Hero UTG: 120bigs. 25-35 yr old white kid. Folded every hand until now. (One orbit lol).

Hand: Hero raises utg to 25 w AKo. Villain 2 utg1 flats (he looked like he was gonna fold and pulled back). Folds to villain 1 in the bb. He raises to 65. Hero can:

1) fold
2) flat
3) raise

Let's talk about what's optimal in this spot and why?

Then we can move on to the flop.

Thanks guys!
2/5 NL live @ Sands Quote
08-29-2014 , 08:30 PM
Hmm...

TBH I don't think I like a 4bet here against an unknown the first hand at the table at these stack sizes. On the other hand I don't know what to think about V2... I mean we are obviously ahead of his range at this point, but he will be getting good odds and have position us if we flat and let him in. Interesting spot when I think about it but, I imagine in game I would probably flat although raising or folding could be superior. Im guessing that's what you did...
2/5 NL live @ Sands Quote
08-29-2014 , 08:38 PM
Would hate to flat here with no info OOP. I hope your ability of putting your opponents on a range of cards is better than your ability to guess age ranges at the table. 35-50 year old??
2/5 NL live @ Sands Quote
08-29-2014 , 08:43 PM
flat>raise>fold

imo
2/5 NL live @ Sands Quote
08-29-2014 , 08:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiggySmacks
Would hate to flat here with no info OOP. I hope your ability of putting your opponents on a range of cards is better than your ability to guess age ranges at the table. 35-50 year old??
We have position on the 3 bettor from the BB.
2/5 NL live @ Sands Quote
08-29-2014 , 08:50 PM
4 betting to 170 and getting it in all day.
2/5 NL live @ Sands Quote
08-29-2014 , 09:53 PM
without any information we can flat since we have position on him. I would hate to 4bet without wanting to gii against an unknown.
I know however these indians at the sands are very aggressive since I play with them all the time. We have basically a full buy in and we can afford to 4bet/click it back/fold to 125. If he flats we can narrow his range quite a bit and take over initiative. If he 5bets or shoves, we can fold knowing we're most likely behind.
2/5 NL live @ Sands Quote
08-29-2014 , 10:01 PM
4 bet fold is not the best option...
Think flatting and playing post is the way to go
2/5 NL live @ Sands Quote
08-29-2014 , 10:10 PM
feel like i keep seeing people who are willing to 4bet/gii with AK in 1/2 and 2/5 games

what range do we get it in against when we take this line with AK? usually its KK+ so naturally 4betting AK in live poker is not going to be so great without an aggressive dynamic
2/5 NL live @ Sands Quote
08-29-2014 , 11:31 PM
Yeah w no info and position on the 3bettor I chose to flat. Utg2 then flatted. Flop was Kc7c2h. 3bettor checked to me I lead 110. Utg2 jams 275 ai. 3bettor flats! I'm forced to a decision for my stack. What do we do?
2/5 NL live @ Sands Quote
08-29-2014 , 11:56 PM
A bet a shove and a flat pretty much means your hand is dead unless they really like to gamble and are super loose.
2/5 NL live @ Sands Quote
08-30-2014 , 12:54 AM
I think it's a pretty easy flat in position against unknown Vs.
2/5 NL live @ Sands Quote
08-30-2014 , 01:07 AM
Flatting seems standard. 4b/folding seems like the worst option.
2/5 NL live @ Sands Quote
08-30-2014 , 03:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ollieeeee
flat>raise>fold

imo
This, although if the 3-bet was larger, folding becomes more of an option and maybe even best.

On the flop, I might go for a check to slowplay, it's kind of hard to get paid off by BB if he has a worse hand, and you may get the other guy to bluff at it or value-bet worse. If the flop checks through, you may get bet into by the BB's pocket pair under kings, or if he checks again and you bet, it doesn't look as strong as it would on the flop.

As played, my first instinct was to shove over the 275, but upon thinking about it, it does seem like a gross spot. Still, I don't see how we can get away from this with case KK being very unlikely. I don't really know what to put him on but with a flush draw possible, most players wouldn't play a set the way he played the hand.
2/5 NL live @ Sands Quote
08-30-2014 , 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiggySmacks
Would hate to flat here with no info OOP. I hope your ability of putting your opponents on a range of cards is better than your ability to guess age ranges at the table. 35-50 year old??
Thats funny, I agree. I think flatting is best.
One thing ive seen from playing with indians is that that age range does play a big role in how i approach the hand. If hes closer to 50, he usually isnt playing the way the typical TAG plays and I would possibly 4! but if hes closer to 35 and looks non-traditional, then im flatting.

Last edited by chokeholdem; 08-30-2014 at 10:36 AM.
2/5 NL live @ Sands Quote
08-30-2014 , 10:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by THEstevoSHOW
Yeah w no info and position on the 3bettor I chose to flat. Utg2 then flatted. Flop was Kc7c2h. 3bettor checked to me I lead 110. Utg2 jams 275 ai. 3bettor flats! I'm forced to a decision for my stack. What do we do?
Im shoving this all day. Even if V2 has us beat(could have a draw), I want to pad my stack with the 3!s chips and if he shows up with AAs or KKs then so be it. Folding AK in this spot with this stack size is too MUBsy.
2/5 NL live @ Sands Quote
08-30-2014 , 11:24 AM
Well I did exactly that, jammed it down his throat and he snapped me off w KK. running aces FTW. Wait nope. Lol
2/5 NL live @ Sands Quote

      
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