Playing 2/5 NL with a 500 max buy in. I have been playing since the table opened up about 5 hours ago and its a very good table.

Stacks:
Hero ~1000
Villain 1 ~900
Villain 2 ~1500

Hero: Haven't done anything too crazy, probably seen as tight aggressive but this doesn't mean too much as villain 1 has not been at the table long and villain 2 is a total donk and is oblivious to table image.

Villain 1: has been at the table for about 45-60 min. Hasn't done anything very interesting. I've one seen him involved in one hand, he had AA on a 986cch board. He bet preflop and got called by a very loose unpredictable [aka bad] player playing pretty much any two cards. He made a standard c-bet of ~30 and got raised to a massive 3bet all in of about 400. He tanked and finally called and scooped the pot.

Villain 2: Been at my table since it opened up, and is a complete donk. Has been calling down pretty much any bet with TP no kicker or worse. Won a pretty big hand when he called down someones all in with KK on a QT98 board and happened to be good. I've been trying to stack him all night but haven't gotten involved with any major hands with him. He has also pushed me off a couple of hands on the turn/river when i have good hands like AK/AQ, etc and blank on the flop, lead out with a standard c-bet, blank on the turn and check to him and he pushes me off (happened probably 3 times).

Hero is in the BB with 34

Pre flop:
UTG limp, UTG +1 limp, Villain limp, limp, Villain 2 limp, sb limp, Hero checks.

Flop (~$35) KT9
Hero bets 25, Villain 1 calls, Villain 2 calls

Turn (~110) 8
Hero bets 75, Villain 1 Calls, Villain 2 raises to 250, Hero calls, Villain 1 raised all in to 775, Villain 2 calls, Hero???? (its now 525 to call with about 100 behind and the pot is ~2k at this point)

What do you guys think here?

Easy fold in a multiway limped pot. I am particularly suspicious of V1 who seems to be tightvfrom what you say. He flats your bet then ships it in over the top of a reraise behind and call of that reraise by you. This is a bad spot for you.

Easy fold. Can't over-call in this spot.

Fist-pump fold

Easy fold.

you are never good here

Prediction: One of the villains has exactly Q J.

To be good here we have to be against QJx and Qx:J exactly basically right?

finally someone mentions ranges ITT.

and for those of you who do think about ranges, this isn't a snap fold or fist pump fold by any means.

4high flush and your going to stack off with a 4high flush smh. I need to come to your game, I know this is not acceptable play.

This is why I don't limp until I have some type of limp range and raising range for my opponents. You don't know what type of flushes your villains are holding. So as I'm typing this up, I now know where you messed up at. Since your working with basically no limp ranges.

Your flop play is horrendous. Never lead OOP with a small flopped flush, I know your going to say why and everyone else will too. The why is because your hand is strong but vulnerable. So a c/r is warranted on the flop. With a small flush I like a c/r because we add FE to the hand depending on bet sizing. When you lead with a small flush you can get trapped and your never, well almost never getting the Ace or King to fold, with a small pot size bet.

Also when you c/r they are less likely to stack off with just a lone ace or king. Only lead with nut hands. Such as a Ace high flush.

Basic stuff

ILCD - Your post is horrible advice for so many reasons. Bear with me while I work through this on my phone. I'm not one to typically call people out but I think there are some serious flaws in your logic.

First off, hero did not limp into this pot, he is the BB and he checked it through.

Second, the idea of check raising with a small flopped flush vs leading out is horrendous. The reason being for this, is that we MUST start to build a pot on the flop, we MUST charge the Ax hands that wish to draw at a larger flush. We do NOT want the Ac to fold in this situation, we want it to call all day long getting worse than 2.5 to 1. Hero's lead and bet on this flop is by far the most superior line for these reasons. A check raise on this flop, polarizes our range as well as the ranges or our villains. Are you check raising top pair, with no club here, are you check raising sets/two pair? Do you expect villains to bet this board and call a check raise without a flush (sometimes a bad player with the Ac may call), however, according to your logic, we are check raising trying to get them to fold the NFD.

Only lead with the nuts. Lol, let me come play in your game. I like the fact that you don't lead monotone boards with anything but the nuts.

OP - I like your play, it's pretty much a fold now but it is somewhat villain dependent. If villain 1 has picked up on the same tendencies that you noted about villain 2 this may very well be a call. I can see villain 1 showing up with a set, two pair, or even 67 with a single club. Villain 2s range IMO is weighted more towards JQ with one club, but he could very well have a made flush here.

Given that we are being laid nearly 4 to 1 on a call, we only need to be good 25% of the time to make this a profitable call. If we are up against a larger club as well as a set, we are about 60% to hold through the river. If we are up against a larger flush (very possible given the preflop limps depending on all villains limping ranges) it becomes a pretty clear fold.

I like your line, this is def one of those soul read on villain 1 moments though in my book, to me though, I don't think you are often any good here.

This is so backwards and ******ed it must be some sort of level.

btw, still fold

Your plan for the hand is horrible. With my line we find out if our hand is good on the flop. With a hand we would c/f if we didn't hit on the flop. In the line your suggesting we have no FE on the flop, if everyone calls that word commitment comes in to play on the turn. I didn't comment on op's turn play because he is facing too much aggression with a hand we had to play in the BB. If he would have went for the simple c/r or c/r OTT. We can c/r fold with no commitment to a stupid 4 high flush.

Basic fundamentals in your poker game and reading. I clearly stated my reasons for op without preflop ranges. You need to bet for information before the pot gets too big OTT or the river when you can't fold because you played the hand horrible.

Its just a basic line I would have drawn up pre, c/r easy game.

I guess we just disagree. I am not worried about commitment issues when I'm betting 2% of effective stacks on the flop. Check raising this flop ~$125 and getting flatted, then having the same turn card fall, puts is in a similar spot but commits us even further into a pot that it looks like a villain is still drawing into.

Take your line instead.

Flop ($35): KcTc9c
We check, checks to Villain1 who bets $25, Villain 2 calls, Hero raises to $110, Villain 1 calls, Villain 2 calls.

Turn ($365): 8d
Hero bets $225, Villain 1 calls, Villain 2 raises to $800, Hero?

Now there's $1635 in the pot, $575 to call, we're not yet committed but we've put $335 into the pot. Earlier result, from the way OP played it he put $350 into the pot and wound up in the same situation.

And sigh at your idea in general at check raising the flop with a made baby flush for "information". There is a time and a place to bet for information, taking a line that polarizes the ranges of your oPponents, is not one of those times.

Bet to get called by worse, to charge a draw, or to get a better hand to fold. According to you, we are betting to get worse hands to fold and better hands to jam over the top of us (or in all likelihood, flat us) and we are still left wondering on the turn if they are drawing, hence the reason for them flatting our check raise OTF ~200+ BB deep, or if they are slow playing the nuts.

Your line does nothing put force us to put more money into the pot on the flop, rather than on the turn.

I can't recall who it was, but Bart Hansen once asked a guest of his Podcast if he ever thought it was better to basically turn his hand into a bluff, or raise for information, in order to more easily/safely play the hand on future streets. The example they used was check raising a K high dry flop with KJ oop vs an aggro opponent, to find out if he 3bet jams the flop, we can assume we're beat. The idea was that it is much more profitable to check call and let him barrel his whole range, rather than polarize his range and make our lives easier on later streets.

Seriously though, check raising 10% of our stack OTF for information when if we get flatted, we have no more information going into the turn than we did on the flop? I just don't get your logic...

Sorry to derail your thinking, but if I c/r to a $100 and 2 players call, how can you bet turn with a 4high flush. I try to print money not burn it.

The reason I would check is to not get raised and play for stacks with 200bbs. I want to see a cheap river, if they bet the turn, I would determine a call on my villains bet sizing and how quickly or slowly he bet.

maybe you shouldn't be playing this hand then if you're not comfortable playing for stacks when you make your hand!!! this flop puts us near the top of our range.

Ah ok. That makes more sense to me now.

I still disagree and don't think that is the line I would take, doesn't mean you can't have your opinion though.

I just don't like the idea of check raising the flop then shutting down/trying to get to showdown for cheap or pot control OOP in a multi-way pot.

Any reason based on your logic, not to check call flop, check re-evaluate turn and river?

I actually don't hate this line, and think I would prefer it over check raising the flop more or less as a bluff, if we are all but giving up when called. I just usually prefer to have the initiative.

Good thoughts though. Took me awhile to see where you were going with it.

Lol wut troll ???

I don't like a c/c in a limp pot when ranges are so wide without the nuts. The pot is small enough to c/r to get the information we need. I want to play a small pot but at the same time play it aggressively, but if two villains flat, I'm done with the hand.

When you lead you also have to worry about calling stations trapping you. Which in reality they are really not trapping. They just never raise. So your playing into there comfort zone. When oop with a made hand I'm going to use the c/r the most powerful move in holdem. And the second most powerful move in holdem c/c with the nuts lol.

i'm not.

You do know that big blinds don't limp when there is no straddle, right?

i make money off people who can't fold 4 high flushes.

I think hero's line is fine, tbh I'd probably fold once V.2 raises the turn, as bad as hero has classified him I'd be inclined to think V.2 has a ton of better made hands (read: pretty much all his range) than some QcX combo making a move, or a set (seriously, from his perspective he can't possibly think a set is good after two bets by hero and a flat from V.1).

Check-raising the flop is atrocious. V.1 and V.2 both call with so much worse , why risk it checking around and keeping the pot stagnant when you can build it yourself? Besides, if it does check around and another club falls hero is basically toast, at least charge bigger flush draws.

Also I'd bet V.1 shows up with the nuts. I don't think there's a 2/5 player in the world capable of taking his line as a bluff, and his line makes no sense for anything less than the straight flush or A-high flush. Results?

What's funny is that people are saying these two villains will flat a c/r, I beg to differ.

I suggest people learn how to play hands OOP.