Hero ($1300) - Only been at the table about 15 min but started with $500 and running hot. Some history with one villain but unknown to other. Playing TAG...only shown down the goods so far. 30 yr old white male grinder.

V1 ($1000) - Seems somewhat loose/aggressive. Indian male late 20's.

V2 ($500) - Competent player. TAG style but willing to mix it up a bit. Regular in room...white male 40's

side note: at this casino if a player is all in, you can run two boards.

V1 raises to $15 in mp, unknown calls, V2 flats from button, Hero completes in BB with 88.

Flop ($60) - 982

Hero checks, V1 bets $35, unknown folds, V2 calls....hero c/r to $125. Both V's call.

Turn ($435) - A

Hero shoves....

Please let me know your comments and thoughts on my line....

I would have let the loose indian guy cbet and fire away on the turn rather than c/r to that type of player. The flop is somewhat wet but if there were broadways on there with the two diamonds then I would be more inclined to c/r. Indian guy would have loved to fire away on the ace anyway.

It looks like we lost value on the turn shove of 1160 into 435, it only helps the lag players to fold out everything we beat, or call with aces and pocket nines.

I like it...looks fishy enough where it gets called enough

I think I prefer to pick a number between $250 and $325 and bet rather than shove -- give V1 a chance to do something silly.

I also don't hate betting a small enough number so that v2 has an opportunity to re-open the betting with a shove, trapping some more money from v1.

With value hands, don’t try to blow opponents out of pots. Instead, play most value hands with the goal of keeping a player in through the river. In your situation even if you suspect he may be trying to flush you still have 10 outs on the turn while he's got only 6 clean outs. (two of his flush outs will pair the board and that is a disaster for him)

Value hands like sets or better are a favorite to be best — but they lose their value when all your opponents fold. If you win without a showdown, you might as well have been holding 72. With your value hands, you want opponents to get to the river where they call you. Calling these value bets is one of the biggest mistakes players make. Allow your opponents to make this mistake. Most players try to end hands early when they feel like they have the best hand. “Don’t want to get drawn out on,” they think. But this is backward thinking. End hands early with strong bets when you have nothing but a weak draw. Allow hands to reach showdown when you actually have a strong hand. Bet enough to give him the wrong price to draw but don't blow him off the draw when you got a set.

If I have a strong hand, I’d much rather get called for $30, $50, and $80 on flop, turn, and river than get called for $30 on the flop and then blow my opponent out of the hand with a $100 bet on the turn. The chance to win $160 with the hand instead of $30 outweighs the risk that I’ll get outdrawn.

I would make the raise size a lot larger.

A) To give both villains worse odds to call. As is, the flop raise was 60+70+125 / 90 = 255 / 90 = 2.83 to 1 (so near 3 to 1) and if V1 calls, then V2 is getting 3.83 to 1.

B) I would make it $165. 295 / 130 = 2.27 to 1 immediate for V1 and 3.27 on V2. You might say, well, what does it matter between 2.27 and 2.83? 2.27 to 1 = 30.58% equity V1 needs to break-even on call. 2.83 to 1 = 26.11% equity need to break-even. You might be saying, well that's only a difference of 4.47%. 4.47% is a huge difference. It can mean the difference between making a correct call and a slightly losing call.

C) Also, when you make it 165, even if you only get 1 caller, pot is 405. If V2 is the one to call you (assumed that V1 folded), then your SPR is less than 1 and you can easily shove for pot. If V1 calls and V2 folds.. then you have to play a bit more poker.


As played, turn is difficult. V1 is never going to continue with you if he has TT-KK here, and since you have the 8, it's impossible for him to have pair+FD. His most likely hand here is AA/99/Diamonds+draw of some kind. He might have a hand like AdTd. Because V1 has 860 left and V2 has 360 left, and the pot is 435. If you just bet 360, and because V1 has to worry about V2 behind him (meaning whether he call or fold), he is getting immediate 2.208 to 1 which means he needs 31.17% to break-even on the call and he isn't getting that on any of his diamond+sd combo draw (JdTd is 29.545%). However, I would not assume V1 to fold JdTd because if V2 calls your bet (meaning he is all-in), he is getting 3.2 to 1 = 23.8% needed to break-even which he is getting with JdTd. He is also getting 22.73% if he has QdJd/QdTd (i.e. gs+fd).


As played, I don't hate the shove to stop V1 from getting implied odds, but I think you're missing value here by not making people do silly things and making large mistakes.

340 ott why would you jam

don't love the jam. Only likely hands calling is AdXd, both the TJs, and the 67s. It does look sketchy though? Still on a board like this with so many draws I'd rather bet an amount that can be called or even raised.

I think betting around $300, maybe a bit less $275ish, charges draws, gets value and potentially gets raised by someone in bad shape. BTW nice opener to the session, great first 15!

Flop raise should be more like $160.

As played, I'm not so sure I hate it. TAG is just making a decision for a 3/4 PSB, so the overshove won't affect him much except maybe he'll think this means we have the nuts, maybe this will make him think we have a draw; probably a wash against him.

Against the ?LAG?, TT-KK is done with their hand in the face of any sizable turn bet once the flop x/r had 3 suitors and an A rolled off. The rest of his range is a lot of Axdd, flopped two pair (I don't think he's folding 98), and combo draws. We fold out Kxdd, but he's probably not making much of a mistake if he calls a normal sized bet with that anyway.

Seems like the good might outweigh the bad.

Raise on the flop is villain dependent. Probably fine vs this Indian. A lot of players will fold even with two diamonds out there. Turn shove is super terrible. It enables even the worst players to fold their draws. We don't want folds, we want value.

BTW, if we had more than 15 minutes at the table and a stronger read than "seems loose/aggressive," then we could stack-a-donk here. There aren't a lot of LAGs out there who can help but bet a draw when a scare card hits. But we can't always choose what info will be available to us when we hit our nutted hands.

$280

+1

I do advocate that I think my c/r on the flop was too small....believe it should've been in the $150-$170 range. I perceived that the indian was a sticky player...once V2 called the flop raise, I was sure he was calling off on the turn as well....I was OOP and the board on the turn was very wet so felt like shoving got the most value. Thinking was if I bet $200-$300 on turn and called by both...any diamond, 7, Q, A could put me in a bad spot with a difficult decision on river against V1 (I was fine with trying to isolate V2...if V1 came along as well then was going to have to dodge a lot of bullets). Here's the results though:

Does running the board twice not affect anyone's decision?? This generally promotes more action and players calling off on their draws a lot more....

Looooollllll.

Sorry OP, that's gross. If only I could comfort with gambler's fallacy and at least you got two of your bad rivers out of the way in one pot?

Grunch--I don't see the reason to blow both Villains out of the water with the turn shove. I would have made a 1/3-1/2 pot-size "blocker bet" in order to try to induce one of the Villains to raise.

The regs at the underground club at which I play known that I rarely agree to run it twice (mostly so I have more FE when I bluff-shove).