Well, I'll try...

As you can see from my first response, I currently rely primarily on math and I'm a TAG player. My regular poker room is huge with many, many opponents. I see and play against regulars, but I have to deal with a lot of new faces. I have to rely on math first. Several years ago, I regularly played in a much smaller room against the same opponents and could more readily utilize what I like to call the "art" aspects of poker that you are alluding to.

First of all, congrats on the free-roll...if you want to go for it and gamble up the money, more power to you. However, just because everyone else was doing it doesn't necessarily mean that it was the optimal strategy.

Looking back on your original post and what I've quoted above, I feel that you made the poorest choice in calling. My first choice is still folding because even crazy bluffers are dealt monsters from time-to-time. I've already talked about the math. I think this is the smart play.

My second choice if and only if I REALLY knew these opponents (perhaps better than they know themselves) would be to shove pre-flop. At least then you would have two ways to win. I still think that V1 has been dealt a premium hand and at best you are flipping against two overcards. But, if you're truly "tired of V1 pushing you around", "wanting to take a stand" and "bored from being card dead so long" (that one is a big leak) and "not wanting to play like a p*ssy" then shoving your stack is the way to go. In your particular circumstance only (knowing the players) I think this is the ballsy play. I've personally witnessed a female poker playing acquaintance of mine making a very similar play with a worse starting hand then yours and exposing it to the table after the pushy male villain mucked...very impressive.

What you did (calling) with this hand is terrible IMO and most likely the only reason this thread exists is because the flop is 8-high. I don't even want to label calling off 40% of your effective stack (math again) a 3rd choice. You can hope for a flopped set, but we already know the math makes this an unprofitable play. You were actually weak-passive pre-flop and I'm sorry to say "played like a p*ssy" at this moment in the hand. The call with your hand is the weak play. In all sincerity, what were you hoping or expecting to happen later in the hand after making this call? Did you have a plan?

So now you're self-stuck. You got nearly the best result possible in an 8-high rainbow flop. You've got nothing to lose now (except for $335) IMO by shoving over the top of V1 and trying to push out V2.

OK, I've gotten a bit off-track here and didn't mean to be harsh by using your quotes from other posts to make my point. I don't think anyone here can give you a quality answer based on all the historical and psychological aspects of this hand in your game. In summary, what I'm trying to state is that ALL the past history, reads, table image perceptions, game dynamics etc. is important, but I feel the best place to apply those in this situation with those stacks and your hand is pre-flop.

Hope this somehow helps...am interested in reading the results.

Bah - Wasted my time and now see the results after my long thought out post.

Good for you...you had the best possible result.

twilight zone reads.

No. It's just a matter of having been there done that so many times, you recognize it pretty quick.

Agree with Percula if the ranges are accurate then it's a shove preflop not a flat. As played I fold this preflop most of the time unless I have a pretty accurate read on V2. V1 doesn't concern me at all.

A few things....

Fold pre, ldo

4bet ranges are a lot more narrow even in crazy games

You were never free rolling. Just because you bingo'd some money doesnt mean its not yours and you're free rolling

Got lucky, teach me how to do that

And again like ANL said... pics or it didn't happen.

jesus, fold pre.

lol live poker, where people make errors at 2/5 NL that 2c/5c players wouldn't make.

spare me the insults, please. Thanks, Percula, for the comments. Playing with regulars day in and day out can change the game both for better and worse, it seems. It's very easy to sit on the internet and analyze a hand, but I would be willing to place a wager on many of you not folding pre (either calling or shoving) if you were in the same game with the same amount of information/reads on the players.

I do like shoving better than calling, the more I think about it, in second place behind folding.

So when do you stop trusting your reads? because V1's 4-bet screamed AK to me, because I know the guy and how he plays. Should it not even be a factor? When does trusting your reads trump pure math? Here, I definitely played my read and the player more than the cards/numbers. most of you seem to think that's a huge mistake.

I'm a decent reader of people. Not necessarily their hands, but more their mannerisms, emotions, etc. I am also good at picking up on patterns. I *thought* this was helping me in poker, but is it really more of a hindrance?

ANL and APD...go here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=544

Well, you are expressing all this focus on V1. Truthfully, what about V2, the 3-bettor at the time of the 4-bet behind you? All you've told us is that he's a calling station, who is pretty solid pre-flop and already has his hands on his chips.

Here's a non-math / pure read question: At the time of V1s 4-bet, how did you feel about your hand with respect to a "solid pre-flop calling station" behind you, who had essentially min-3-bet you and has his hands on his chips in response to the big 4-bet?

Nice pic btw

Seriously I think 99 is a snap-fold to a cold-4bet even in really crazy games. you pretty much got wicked lucky they both have AK!

I'd be more worried about V2 than V1 too. I think the range OP assigned for a min-raise from a calling station is way too wide, even in position - is he 3-betting AJo with a LAG in the blinds? As played, I could agree with your reasoning to find a call if it was heads-up against V1, but not with another calling station behind you who might make a bad overcall (eg TT) with a hand that beats you.