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2/5 K5s - Pretty Standard Spot 2/5 K5s - Pretty Standard Spot

03-12-2021 , 11:22 AM
2/5, 8 handed, $400 effective with villain (hero covers.) Hero has a nitty image. Villain has been at the table for about 45 minutes and has been doing a lot of limp folding pre.

The only hand I saw that villain played post flop that got any significant action was when: he open limped LJ, BTN limped, BB x and the flop came 973r and BB x, he bet $15 and only BB called. Turn 4x and BB x, villain bet $25 and BB called. River 8x. X-x. Villain is good with J9o.

OTTH

Villain open limps +2, tight passive limps CO, tight passive limps BTN, hero checks BB K 5.

Flop ($22): Q 6 4. X-villain bets $20-folded to hero who calls. I would have led this flop if it were to have been T high or below because top pair will change so frequently ott and villains will also have so much less top pair that two barrels will regularly take the pot down, but I don't think that applies here.

Turn ($62): 4. Hero checks, villain bets $40. Hero?
2/5 K5s - Pretty Standard Spot Quote
03-12-2021 , 11:52 AM
Raise looks good here. We should be able to move him off Qx a good portion of the time and can reliably rep 4x given that we're in the BB. 4 also removes 2 combos of 44 from his range.

He's also likely not too strong given that he limped so he mostly has Q low kicker / draw type hands.
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03-12-2021 , 12:38 PM
I would probably have bet into him on the turn. Now we have checked and he has bet I think we have plenty of equity to call and we can still bluff the turn when the straight comes in. I think he is more likely to fold to a river bet than a turn bet presuming he does have either a queen or large pocket pair. He may be continuation betting two barrels with nothing but AJ. In those situations, a check raise will surely work. But he should check the turn most of the time when the board pairs. Most players know this is a good place for you to check raise. If he is willing to bet here he will likely call a raise unless we go really big. Often a smaller bet on river will get the job done as it will look like we are value betting and want him to call.
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03-12-2021 , 02:00 PM
I might have check/raised the flop vs. this player or led the turn.

As played, I can get behind a raise if you are sure he'll fold a Q. A lot of players have a hard time folding top pair on a paired board, but you are BB so can be very wide. If he is "aware" of this, a raise is good. Flatting is ok, too. You can scare him off the river sometimes as much as you can with a check/raise.
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03-12-2021 , 02:19 PM
I would generally check raise the flop with my strong draws. In that situation i would lead out on the turn when board pairs or the straight comes in. I would usually avoid a large check-raise on the turn after it went check call because it becomes clear you don't want him to call. If you actually made your trips on the turn you would often just call or min raise. I like min raising because it sets up future opportunities to min raise bluff and min raise for value in future pots. You also loose less when called. I prefer to actually have made trips the first time i do this. Then the Pre-flop aggressor will be more leery of calling the next time i do it, allowing me to bluff more. Also when he calls my min raise and sees I missed he may call a larger raise next time around when I have it.
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03-12-2021 , 03:17 PM
Grunch

That's a massive bet on the flop that I would consider folding some of my worse flush draws. Khi good enough. Turn at game speed this is tough but I think a fold is in order. I called flop because implied odds from two streets of value if I hit turn. Now I'm done. We'll have tons of other hands to continue checking from the big blind and I don't think drawing to an obvious non nut flush on a paired board is going to pay enough on the river to be worth 2/3 pot.
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03-12-2021 , 03:23 PM
Post-grunch

I can get on board with a raise as I certainly like it more than a turn call, but would like to do it with lower spades or AsXs so that we block A4, 54, 64, 66, etc or have nut flush draw when called. Don't need to fight with every flush draw and we don't have a massive amount of 4X after a pot sized flop bet...

Edit: oh we are blocking a 54 combo. I'm marginally happier with this now but not as much as I would be having As too.

Last edited by reaper6788; 03-12-2021 at 03:28 PM.
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03-12-2021 , 06:24 PM
Agree nothing wrong with a fold on turn especially against an aggressive opponent OOP. But generally to exploit an aggressive opponent we want to fold less often and bluff more often. Aggressive players make money by getting their opponents to fold too much. This hand has way too much equity on the flop. And remember that the villain can have a pair or a flush draw but not both. Deciding to continue with our flush draw is not just due to it being the second nuts but also because we have one over-card to top pair on the flop. So if our villain has a Queen we can still win with a King. If this villain will keep firing with weaker hands i would certainly call the turn. He still has another 335 left for implied odds on the river. But i would much prefer to be calling with this hand in position. Problem is if we hit the flush on the river and bet into him he may fold. If we check the river he can check behind and we never make any money when we hit our hand. So calling the turn makes most sense if we are prepared to bluff big on a river blank or a K or something that completes the straight. Is the villain capable of folding on the river? Most aggressive players will keep betting as long as you keep checking. But they often fold to any aggression because they have nothing. So if you play back at them on the turn or river they will often fold. Need to have tried some small and medium re-raises against him to see what he does and this flop or turn would be a good place to test him.
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03-12-2021 , 06:33 PM
Honestly depends on the game. If you think V is paying attention and knows your tight than I could see raising here. You probably get called by a few Qs and get most Qs to fold. I think if you take this line though you are going to have to jam most rivers.
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03-13-2021 , 02:20 AM
Check calling turn seems pretty bad. What’s our plan by calling, pray we’re good if a K hits and Donk if a spade that isn’t the 6s hits?

I’d probably fold bare flush draws here and do a fair amount of check raising with my flush draws + backup, like an overcard to the Q or a straight draw.

Really don’t like check raising flop with this combo. Would rather check raise combos on the flop that can’t turn top pair.

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03-13-2021 , 12:25 PM
Agree with last post. Check calling turn not that great and check raising flop likely bad as it grows the pot too much to continue on the turn when we miss and re-opens the betting allowing the villain to 3 bet us off a hand that has lots of equity. For these reasons check calling the flop is the best play. I would mostly lead out a bet on the turn or check fold to a turn bet. I like betting out on turn with low scare cards that may have hit our range more than his. Any card from 3-8 will be a good scare card to bet 40 into him. He should fold any hands that do not contain top pair - such as AK TJ, or 99. If we check the turn, he will perceive us as drawing with weak holdings and he will often fire a second barrel with almost his entire range - including unpaired hands. This is a blocking bet but it allows us to lead out with a large bluff bet on the river which may be our only way to win this pot when we miss. If we check call the turn we are likely to get called if we miss and bet big on the river. The action will not make much sense to a thinking opponent.
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03-17-2021 , 08:34 AM
Turns a fold. Lol at cr flop or turn. No guys. What are you repping?
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03-17-2021 , 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by acescracked84
Turns a fold. Lol at cr flop or turn. No guys. What are you repping?
We are BB in a limped pot. We can have any two cards here. We have a nitty image vs. a villain who seems to have a fold button.

Last edited by Javanewt; 03-17-2021 at 11:50 AM.
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03-17-2021 , 12:03 PM
The villain is this hand is weak-tight, not aggressive. Aggressive players don't limp fold for 45 minutes.

The villain has a hand he likes. Otherwise he would have never lead out on the flop and continued on the turn. We know he isn't going to freeze up with TP. He also supposedly thinks the Hero is a tight player, so he isn't thinking he'd call with 3rd pair. Therefore, if he is thinking at all, he's thinking the 4 didn't help Hero. I think a raise isn't going to get the fold on the turn. So raising is just going to earn a call on the turn and a check on the river. Hero might be able to get the fold on the river with a big bet or a smaller one if a scare card comes.

It is a lot of risk for not much reward since he'll x/f the river if a spade or A/K comes. If you want to gamble, raise the turn. I'm ok with folding if you don't. Call is the worst option.
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