500 eff

V/UTG1 30s black guy no real reads

V opens 25
UTG2 calls
HERO call KQ
2 calls behind

5way
FLOP(125) K54

V bets 75
HERO calls

HU
TURN(275) 6

V leads 125
HERO calls

HU
RIV(525) 3

V 175

Why you keep calling and help building up the pot on one pair hand to the point that becomes a mistake to fold anymore?

Probably not terrible to fold pre vs an UTG raise.
As played flop is fine, turn is already a bit more marginal. We need reads that he is double barrelling his draws here to continue imo.

Trivial fold on the river, even with those odds. Everything got there.

What kind of range opens and then triples this runout?

Hard to say without reads, but generally probably something like: AA/KK/AK/AdQd/AdJd and possibly 55/44.

Once in a blue moon you might have a drooler here who shows up 88-QQ or KJ/KT, but probably not often enough to call profitably.

I would feel like AK/AA and maybe even KK would check this river a ton

I don't care what anyone else says, 100BB's is hard to play!

If we had more chips I'd strongly consider turning our hand into a bluff OTR with a big raise.

So weird that he leaves $100 behind.

We need, what, 20% equity to call? *puke fold

Calling turn to fold river is kinda burning money.

What is his double barrel range? Our hand looks like a K and he bets into us again. How many diamond draws does he really barrel with? Not that many OTT I think.

Fold turn?

Snap folding river. Don't think it's a puke fold think it's an easy fold. Our hand is the same as middle set here.

^^^^ this
It is so hard when you hardly have any room to do anything.
What kinda hand is he emptying the clip on that you beat?? KJ is about it but i highly doubt it
Flush draws come in on the the river, as kookie mentioned if we deeper can see a raise on the turn or river.
If going to call the turn you have to expect a shove on the river so that is where you have to decided if you are good or not.

I'm calling river. This line looks very bluffy, since this runout is awful for the value hands villain was representing on the flop and turn. As a utg + 1 opener, he has very few flushes, and most live donks will just shove when they get there with a fd in this spot, so his sizing looks bluffy to me. Villain probably doesn't know how big the pot is so it's a bad idea to say that his sizing looks like value, because the bet feels big to him.

My rule of thumb is that a random llsnl player is unlikely to bluff, but he is way more unlikely to go for thin value.

That said, fold pre.

Shove river.

You've already put so much $$$ in now, its worth it to see if he can fold.

If you shove, you're betting $275 to win $1050. He needs to fold 25% of the time (or so) for the shove to be neutral.

Since he left himself some $ behind, I'd be willing to bet he finds a fold here.

Is this really a fold pre?

We have a good multi way hand with good absolute position on the PFR

Even with so few chips left, I wonder if you can bluff shove here.

Never ever folding this pre-flop.

What do you think your range looks like to him here? It seems like we are near the bottom of what we should have. On paper this looks like a fold. We only beat insane bluffs that are now giving us odds to call, or the occasional really overvalued KJ. We lose to all combos of AA, AK, and Axdd which if we think he has KJ in his range, he for sure has a ton of these as well.

Sounds like a fluke hand that didn't end up being a fold that probably should have been most of the time.

its just crazy that on one hand, he either has to raising some suited-straighty type thing pre in EP and then cbet into a million people, and then triples it.

Or that he has legit value and is just like idgaf about the runout

Shipping the river is pretty compelling.

If you currently have the best hand, you capture all that equity when you ship (we don't fold it away).

And if you have the worst hand, I have to think he does fold (sometimes snap folds) some %.

heres some live tell stuff:

He took a very long time on river, and double checked his whole cards.

his hand was not covering his whole cards and was not protected.

I ask him if he has AK and he says "does that beat you?" I say yea and he replies with "good"

Sorry to be harsh, but this is terrible.

I would have taken all that time OTT so that you knew pretty much what you were going to do OTR so that you do not have a timing tell of your own.

Soon as you agonize over your decision OTR, he knows you cannot beat TPTK and you lose any FE you might otherwise have had.

From Hero's perspective, your river action should be "automatic".

This is all fair, althought i never considered shipping anything other then non d Q/K OTR

Hmm prior to table talk, I might shove. After the talk, you can't really shove, but I call.

When I hear "does that beat you?" I think I hear "I'm nervous / curious and want to know where I'm at." His question emphasizes how weak your hand is - and it's obviously weak given the exact question you just asked. I don't think it makes sense for him to want to build on the narrative that your hand is too weak to call when he has a better hand that really wants a call. The "good" is a pretty terse response and I think genuine (so not a weak-is-strong response). And it is not "the speech" indicating strength. I think it's weakness. Call.

I saw a villain take this exact same line with a complete airball on an almost identical run-out yesterday. Not many rec players go for thin value on the river here so I actually don't mind a call for that price. It's also odd that he leaves $ behind like hes trying to bluff for as cheap as possible and make it look like a value bet (villain yesterday did the exact same thing).

Shoving the river is actually pretty sexy if he can bet/fold thinly because it folds out almost all of his hands besides AdQd. I'm not sure that's something I would have thought of in the moment in this spot but I do like it.

The turn is the key moment of the hand. I think you need to raise or fold. He bet preflop, cbet into 3 players oop, and bet again on the turn. Pretty strong. You called the flop with two players behind you. He must at least put you on top pair. His bet is kinda small (sometimes indicating weakness) though it sets up a river shove.

I think I fold the turn because we don't have either flush draw and are behind AK. It's possible he's going crazy with KJs or QQ, but that's a very small part of his range. I'd probably bluff-raise if a diamond or a 3 hit.

As played, I fold the river. It looks like a classic suck bet. You could try to bluff shove with a flush and 4-straight on the board. It only needs to work about 20% of the time. He'd be getting about 10:1 to call and would have to be kind of insane to fold. I think it's your only chance of winning the hand.

Btw, this is never a fold pre. Super results oriented thinking.

So he missed the backdoor flush draw and tried to level you by making his river bet look like value? He has to have a good reason to not shut down on river if he has no equity

Grunch.

I think I'd rather help you make your decision on the turn.

Initial SPR was 10. With no real reads on V, I don't think you should plan to stack off (or put in 80% of your stack).

Call pre seems fine to me.

Call on the flop seems fine to me. Raising is also an option -- obviously planning to fold to continued aggression.

OTT, it's time to decide whether you're calling turn and river or bailing now. Calling turn and evaling a river bet constitutes one count of Failure to Plan the Hand. I think the standard decision with no reads would be to fold.

OTR, you're screwed. V could be bluffing or betting his nut flush or something in between. Board is uber scary, but V could realize board is uber scary. You're getting 3:1 on your money, but have no clue whether you should call or not. We basically can't estimate the EV of this spot, so flip a coin or do whatever enhances the image you're going for.


After reading responses, I like turning our hand into a bluff with a river shove. Board hits our range more than his and is scary to him too.

But not after the table talk.

Let me elaborate on the fold pre advice:

Whether this is a fold pre is table dependent, and it is perhaps not a fold due to the caller between us and the raiser, but against any sort of normal UTG+1 opening range in a 9 handed game we have **** equity, not to mention the fact that there are still many players left to act, and there is a decent chance we get squeezed. With 5 players left to act, if each of them squeezes 3% of the time, we're going to be facing a 3 bet ~14% of the time.

In a tight aggressive game without a caller this hand is a 3 bet or fold preflop. In a loose passive game where there are like 7 fish at the table, yeah I'm calling.