This wasn't really a thing at 1/2. It's not a major factor at 2/5, but definitely relevant enough to make a thread about. I'd say, on average, there's one player besides me that will 3 bet light at the table, and I was interested in constructing 4 bet bluffing ranges.

I remember posting a hand a week or two ago where I opened from LJ and was 3 bet by BTN who 3 bets light, and the consensus was start by 4 betting AQo+, JJ+. I feel like we can also add in A5s there, maybe not at 100% frequency?

Anyways, I was thinking about this because a few nights ago, a hand got to showdown where I was 3 bet CO v BTN and the 3 bettor had ATo. Seems like a standard 3 bet, but I was wondering how wide should I be 4 betting here?

What are your base ranges for 4 betting players that are solid and/or 3 bet wide, LP v. LP and LP v. Blinds?

For baseline I thought this was easy to follow.

CO vs BU

JJ+, AQo+, KQs, A5s, AQs/KJs/KTs(50%), TT(50%)

BU vs SB

QQ+, AK+, A3s

BU vs BB

KK+, AKo, A3s, K8s

I'm actually shocked at how tight these ranges are. Especially no JJ/AQ BTN v. SB, and no JJ-QQ/AQ BTN v. BB. Are we flatting AQo?

Why are we 4 betting A3s, but no other suited wheels in the latter two?

What's up with K8s?

And do you have HJ v. CO?

Thanks.

Because we're talking about 4 bet ranges here. You will have a pretty robust flatting range in these spots as well. You can punish the blinds with a strong flatting range if they are getting too out of line since you have position,
rather than 4 betting wider because they can make less mistakes.

And yes I'm flatting AQo


HJ vs CO

JJ+, AKo/AKs, AQs, KQs.KJs/KTs/ATs/AJs/A5s/76s(50%)

Thank you much. Makes sense and I appreciate it. What's up with the random K8s though in BTN v. BB?

Oh also regarding my preference for A3 vs A5. A couple minor things.

It unblocks A5 which is a part of most 3 betting ranges so I'd rather not have A5 in my hand when I'm 4betting.

And since A5 is so common now people are a little more aware of boards that hit this hand. And 3 3 x looks a little less scarier than 5 5 x.

And 3 is the number of the holy trinity so it puts god on your side. So you're more likely to win in a critical spot.

K8s is a good mix because I don't want to flat it but has an ok blocker, is suited, and gives some mid board coverage to our 4 bet range with the 8. Basically the best candidate that I don't want in a 3 bet flatting range.

Lol thank you

Use a range calculator to construct what you’re looking for.

It’s a fun exercise.

Where does one get a range calculator? Would that just be the pio pre flop solver?

I currently use PokerCalc from the App Store. Just give your opponents the 3-betting range (including strong hands) that they are exploiting you with and look and see how various hands you give yourself hold up vs that range.

Note that implementation of a 4 bet range means your variance will go up. So, if you are taking a shot at 2-5 with “new” money vs taking a shot because you believe your skill level is increasing, then you may not last too long in 2-5 depending on whether or not you run into the top of V’s ranges.

I’m not arguing which approach is best and will leave that up to you.

Also, you’ll see A5s is crappy really and would only be used a very small percent of the time, like when conditions are good (eg you’ve been card dead and inactive for several orbits).

One last thing: don’t put yourself in a position you’ll regret stack commitment-wise, on accident anyway.

One more last thing: good luck, make some heads roll, taste a little blood, get nasty.

With a wider 4b range, esp OOP how are you proceeding postflop?
Range betting flop with your whole range and following up on good turns?
What stack depth are you doing these 4bet bluffs, more than 200bb?

This is for 100bb. Range betting most boards and gii on the turn.