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10-21-2010 , 03:57 PM
#26
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AintNoLimit
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it should be an ez check fold. Bet folding makes no sense in this scenario unless you want to bet like 1/3 pot or something, and are sure he wont turn something weird into a bluff.

He shouldnt have a value pair often enough to warrant calling a big bet on river and most likely wouldnt valuebet it if we check river. (so we dont get fooled into thinking his bet means a flush and fold). He will check back i think with most pairs etc.
/ - Bottom Set - By The River Everything Gets There Quote
10-21-2010 , 03:57 PM
#27
KneedUrDough
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But by checking now villain checks behind with any hand that I could have gotten value from (if he doesn't decided to turn them into bluffs) bets with flushes and straights as well as pure bluffs (but there really aren't many hands that would have gotten this far that are pure air.)
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10-21-2010 , 03:59 PM
#28
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AintNoLimit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KneedUrDough
But by checking now villain checks behind with any hand that I could have gotten value from (if he doesn't decided to turn them into bluffs) bets with flushes and straights as well as pure bluffs (but there really aren't many hands that would have gotten this far that are pure air.)
Name the hands that villain will check behind that would have called a decent bet on this river. He would be thinking that same we are. Every draw in life got there. I think betting river here is -EV myself, and i go out of my way to valuebet thinly.
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10-21-2010 , 04:07 PM
#29
KneedUrDough
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Villain is a winning player who plays both $2/$5 and $5/$10. He can be aggressive on later streets, calls down light (or raises)when lines don't make sense and I THINK he can turn a made hand into a bluff. His view of me is good (not great) too LAG'gy for his tastes and he thinks he's better than me and can out play me post flop (as he often calls me light PF IP w/ATPC.) He's over-confident because I feel that I'm better than him and he under estimates me but regardless, we're both in the top 10% in the room.
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10-21-2010 , 06:14 PM
#30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KneedUrDough
Villain is a winning player who plays both $2/$5 and $5/$10. He can be aggressive on later streets, calls down light (or raises)when lines don't make sense and I THINK he can turn a made hand into a bluff. His view of me is good (not great) too LAG'gy for his tastes and he thinks he's better than me and can out play me post flop (as he often calls me light PF IP w/ATPC.) He's over-confident because I feel that I'm better than him and he under estimates me but regardless, we're both in the top 10% in the room.
To me its so obvious that most of villains range passes us by the river. There is no need for villain to turn TT into a bluff on river nor valuebet it. I just dont think villain can get to the river with worse. I mean if you think villain is just going to float twice and bluff river......well, then call.
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10-21-2010 , 06:26 PM
#31
KneedUrDough
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Not sure if Villain ever floats the turn (can't see it though.) So is this a c/f?
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10-21-2010 , 06:53 PM
#32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KneedUrDough
Not sure if Villain ever floats the turn (can't see it though.) So is this a c/f?

Its what i would do even though it sounds like a line we wouldnt hardly ever take. But its due to the board just literally completing about 90% of villains range plus fact that i just dont see many combos at all that villain makes iot to river with,then wants to turn into a bluff.
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10-21-2010 , 07:16 PM
#33
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I'd be looking to check raise this flop almost always. Only reason not to would be that you believe villain would've cbet this board often.

Turn bet should be way, way bigger.

OTR given effective stacks, c/f. There's very little value in betting as he's probably folding an overpair, and all overpairs check behind as well. These are the only hands you're getting value from anyways so you get to see a showdown vs those almost 100% of the time.
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10-22-2010 , 07:50 AM
#34
derick
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I agree with the OP's assessment of the villain.

Now I definitely check and hand read, depending on what the villain does.

This villain often bets small with his small hands and big with his big hands. It's like x-ray vision on his hand.

The board as I said is too dangerous to try to extract value from your set.
Your set has shrunk to a pretty good hand.

As played, the small turn bet may induce a bluff bet now that the scary river card has come.
Last edited by derick; 10-22-2010 at 07:51 AM. Reason: I know this villain and have played him often.
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10-22-2010 , 01:52 PM
#35
KneedUrDough
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Spoiler:
I bet $215, Villain shoved and I folded... This was a c/f as I beat almost nothing that would bet unless he was turning a made hand into a bluff (but which of those hands doesn't make a move before then.) We live, we learn.
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10-22-2010 , 01:58 PM
#36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KneedUrDough
Spoiler:
I bet $215, Villain shoved and I folded... This was a c/f as I beat almost nothing that would bet unless he was turning a made hand into a bluff (but which of those hands doesn't make a move before then.) We live, we learn.
Dont feel bad about it. I think most would consider that standard since c/f just feels too dirty to actually do.
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