Playing 2/5 at Aria on Sunday night after the superbowl. Bought in for 500 and have ran it up to about 1400. Table seems to respect me as I have only shown premium hands, and have played TAG.

Game has been with pretty good action, but not completely crazy.

On the button I look down at 10-8 off. Every player but one limps in front of me, and I decide to limp on the button as well, not too excited about my hand, but glad to have posistion and feel im better than almost everyone at the table.

Player out of the small blind who seems to be a recreational player makes it 20 to go, even though standard opens have been more around 25-30.

Everyone calls.

Flop comes 88A - rainbow.

Hand is checked around and I decide to check as well hoping someone thinks their week ace is good on turn, or someone turns two pair.

Turn comes Q, still rainbow, small blind(800) pre flop raiser bets 20 into the 160 dollar pot, one caller, and I make it 65. Small blind thinks for about 30 seconds and shoves for about 700 more. Other caller folds.

I can never fold here correct? I mean I am only losing to K8, A8, AA and QQ and I have a hard time putting opponent on ANY of these hands, maybe A8 or K8, but I also dont see him playing the hand this way with any of these cards.

Thoughts?

I call looks like a bluff to me with the over bet.

Fold. You are hardly ever good. He raised out of the blinds and he's a recreational player. Seems unlikely that he's bluffing and probably has AA or got lucky with QQ.

You forgot AA, didn't give us reads on the sb (which is the most important thing) and I would be taking A8 and K8 out of his raising range over limpers from the sb.

No logic in that thought process of yours. Your contradicting yourself with all your reads.

Reads: Your perceived image is tight, table has not been crazy.

Ranges: Villain raises from the small blind JJ+,AK,AQ. Get a sea of callers and checks flop. Bets 10$ott lol, you raise and he shoves. The only hands he show up with here are AA/QQ. Villain reps a very narrow range.


"Easy fold TBH".

Ha, when I read "I can never fold here," I was shocked to see the word fold where the word call should have been.

Pro tip regarding the flop: you can always value bet your trips in that spot. If someone has an ace and checked to you, they are almost always check/calling not check/folding. Your value bet looks like an aggro button stab enough that people won't fold. They are often correct, too. When I am the raiser and I flop something marginal in a nearly family pot, my plan when I check the flop is "c/f to a bet by anybody OOP, c/c the button" a lot. this is a decent plan very often.

So go ahead and bet the flop.

Sorry this is my first real hand post so bare with me. I think this player would more than likely raise more out of the sb here with AA or QQ and 20 dollar raise looks more to me like trying to bloat the pot for a drawing hand, because it seems pretty apparent everyone will waterfall call. As soon as he bet, I knew everyone would call and I got the feeling everyone else at the table did as well.

On the Flop I feel like if he connected at all on the flop he would bet out here, as he is most likely getting called, especially if he is as strong as AA or QQ.

On the Turn, When he only bets 20 into the 160 dollar pot, and one caller and i raise to 65 I think if He is really strong here he is most likely making a good raise to either 150-200 because he pretty much has the effective nuts here.

I think his shove looks more like He has AK or AQ or a chopping 8 with me.

Thanks for all the replies. I just have a very hard time putting him on AA or QQ here, I would assume the player would want to get the hand heads up, or at least 3 way and a bigger raise would accomplish this. Most pre flop raises are getting at least one caller and it could also look like a steal to some. I guess I was close minded on this hand and should have given folding more consideration

Right, I guess I dont have K8 in his range, but I can possibly give him A8 suited, possibly trying to build a big pot to draw to. Im not condoning this play but I can see villan possibly doing it.

If he has A8 why is he over betting the pot? Why does he expect to get called if he has any of the full house combos? If I had A8 I'm either flat calling or raising 2.5 times so it's not as obvious as a min raise would be.

I completely agreed and this was my logic in the hand. I called, the player turned over AA.

I think looking back and seeing what others had to say, that because this is a recreational player they got excited and shoved. Turns out he just played his hand poorly, but ended up getting payed because it didnt really add up to me at the table. so maybe it wasnt such a bad play

Perfect against you, not so perfect vs someone who uses logic and probability.

Easy fold. Typical weak passive rec player trying to slow play and trap.

Agreed. This is a typical fish play, thinking they're being smart but the minute they have an opponent with some interest they get over excited. Never a bluff and they're playing timid if they have Ax + because they're scared ****less of the paired board. Feel free to tank a lil and then fold every time here against these type of players

When reading the post my initial thought was AA or possibly QQ. I would never put A8 or K8 in the players range. Here's why:

He raised out of the SB. Rec players tend to do this with only super-premium hands. The fact that he raised less than avg raise weights this more heavily as being AA. Some rec players have been burned with Aces and will raise more with them. However, in general players feel more comfortable with Aces because it's less vulnerable (ie this player would likely raise more with QQ or KK because he would be scared of an ace hitting the flop). (btw, often times rec players just use bad bet sizing with little rhyme or reason)

When the player checks the flop he is doing so because he feels his hand is virtually unbeatable (if he bets, he may feel ever1 will fold). He is hoping some players pick up draws on the turn, or perhaps have an 8 or an ace, or perhaps someone will just bluff at it for him. This is standard for rec players. If he had led out on this flop it would have actually disguised his hand and made it more difficult for you to fold.

Whenever rec players go from passive to aggressive as was displayed in this hand it should set off a warning sign. Would he check AK or AQ with that flop? Doubtful. Also with AK or AQ, most players, even bad ones will know they are beat by an 8 and will slow down, not shove over the top of an aggressor. Anything is possible with a rec player, but it's much more likely player has AA or QQ than Ax.

When non nutjobs take this line it is always a monster... I trapped him...'ah i got action, maybe they call the rest. I got the nuts!'

Yep. Rec players will rarely raise for all of thir chips without the nuts. The way you get chops from a rec player is by his calling mistakes; they raise so infrequently they don't make too many raising mistakes outside of cooler hands (where they are only making a mistake in fundamental theorem terms).

you guys are overlooking the fact that the sb gay bet/ shoved. pretty dink play is like always the nuts

Well u do get people who will get it in with hands that are clearly not winning in big pots but not with this line. I play 1/2£ (about 1.5/3 us) in a room which spreads much bigger games so u occasionally get a rec player waiting on a bigger game who has a strong one pair hand and is playing with the stakes mindset of the bigger game and therefore overplaying their hand.

We r not ignoring that at all!

*Grunch* #1 2-8-12

I am always betting the flop here. ALWAYS. It just SO looks like you are taking a stab at the pot with position, and if someone has an ace, they are calling.

When the turn comes, your hand is so transparent. Why did that queen make you raise the turn after you had checked an obvious betting spot on the flop? The only thing that makes sense is that you have an 8. SB knows this, and CAN BEAT you. He also knows that people don't fold trips, so figures he can get paid off big.

All that coupled with his raise inducing tiny bet on the turn, and this is an easy fold.