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2/5 AKo flops top top NFD 3 way 2/5 AKo flops top top NFD 3 way

08-03-2022 , 06:56 AM
2/5
Stacks are 500
V1 BB. has just sat down. This is his first hand. Average looking white guy.
V2 Button. Young ish chinese guy. Seems like a competent regular.

Hero is in middle position with A K
Heros image is somewhat tight, but has been caught bluffing more than once.



1 limp
Hero opens 25
V1 raises 110
V2 calls
limper folds
Hero calls


Flop 330

K 9 3

This is a great flop for Hero

V1 donks 125

In this poker room the game is "Turbo" meaning players have 20 seconds to act.
This can make things a little difficult in big spots like these.

Do we want to call and see what V2 does?
Do we want to jam for ~390?
Do we want to fold because V1 seems to have flopped a flush? hahaha
2/5 AKo flops top top NFD 3 way Quote
08-03-2022 , 07:15 AM
I just stick it in now.
2/5 AKo flops top top NFD 3 way Quote
08-03-2022 , 07:42 AM
Some arguments can be made for both call/jam. Probably either option is okay.

Call is good to entice V2 to put additional money in the pot with a dominated hand. This reason may not be so relevant because V2 is a solid reg, so he shouldn’t have dominated medium strength hands like KxQd.

Jam is good because V1 is likely committed on the flop after his bet, however, if you call and a fourth diamond peels off, V1 may choose to not put additional money in the pot. Say, if V has black aces and turn is Qd, he may just check/fold. Which would be very bad, because that hand would have called a flop jam.

I assume you are being sarcastic and you never considered a fold. (Also it is nearly impossible for V1 to have a flush given the Ad and Kd are out of the deck).

Small nitpick: it is not called a “donk” when V1 bets. A “donk bet” is a specific type of bet when a player who called a raise on a previous street bets from out of position. For instance if there were another player in SB who called the BBs preflop raise, then if SB bets out on the flop it is a donk. In the actual hand, BB’s action is just a plain bet.
2/5 AKo flops top top NFD 3 way Quote
08-03-2022 , 08:28 AM
I'm assuming V1 is BTN and V2 is BB?

As played, I'd gii. If BTN has a strong hand, they will call, if not (e.g. black QQ), they will fold regardless.

Pre - if you are bankrolled for a couple of buy-ins, AI with the dead $ offered by the BB flat.
2/5 AKo flops top top NFD 3 way Quote
08-03-2022 , 09:26 AM
Like the user above me, I was going to suggest that hero should really be considering a 4bet shove pre-flop with AKo out of position for 100BB effective with the cold-caller. Unless you know the 3bettor is mega tight, this shove should print money. If the original 3bettor is actually on the button, his 3bet is really large. There is a ton of money in there and getting it in pre-flop is the only way to guarantee you realize your equity. Also, every once in a while you will get two folds which is obviously an incredible result.

AP, I think I would jam the flop. Pretty great situation for you though, don't think you can do anything wrong unless you somehow fold.
2/5 AKo flops top top NFD 3 way Quote
08-03-2022 , 09:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by samo
I'm assuming V1 is BTN and V2 is BB?
Clearly there is a typo in the HH.

But I’d assumed the issue was just a missing action preflop, namely, V2 in BTN double flatted (so call $25 then call $125).

If in reality V2/V1 positions are switched and the double caller is the one who donk leads into the field that changes the hand somewhat lol.

OP should clarify.
2/5 AKo flops top top NFD 3 way Quote
08-03-2022 , 09:32 AM
Oh it seems I have made a mistake with the pre flop action!
I mixed up v1 and v2

Action should be

1 limp
Hero opens 25
V2 raises 110
V1 calls
limper folds
Hero calls
2/5 AKo flops top top NFD 3 way Quote
08-03-2022 , 09:33 AM
Your story has a problem, I think your initial playbook is the mistake. You said

Quote:
Originally Posted by plopbc
V1 BB
V2 Button

1 limp
Hero opens 25
V1 (BB?) raises 110
V2 (Button?) calls
limper folds
Hero calls
I assume it should be
Quote:
Originally Posted by plopbc
V1 BB
V2 Button

1 limp
Hero opens 25
V2 (Button) raises 110
V1 (BB) calls
limper folds
Hero calls
Preflop: AK really wants only one opponent, and there's that dead money in there from BBs call of the 3bet. Your choices should be either raise all in or fold, depending on the 3bet range you put Button on. If he is a tight old-school player whose 3bet range is strictly QQ+ and AK, then just fold, but you only have to add in TT, JJ, and AQ to make this a profitable shove, especially if he will fold TT and JJ.

@ChaosInEquilibrium So with this corrected story, this was correctly described as a donk bet.

BB's preflop call absolutely includes QJdd, JTdd, even T9dd and worse for a lot of players. This is exactly why you wanted to raise preflop, to get that trash out of there. Of course, he also has 99 and 33 in his range, but would he donk bet with those?

As played, I would just call to keep a badly dominated Button in there. I'm less worried about another diamond scaring off BB. Someone who will call a 3bet cold from BB with QJs is going to stay in even if his flopped flush has been half counterfeited.

Last edited by Zag24; 08-03-2022 at 09:55 AM.
2/5 AKo flops top top NFD 3 way Quote
08-03-2022 , 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zag24
@ChaosInEquilibrium So with this corrected story, this was correctly described as a donk bet.
Yeah with the corrected story it’s a donk bet.

OP only mistake you can make is to fold. My snap judgement is that raise or call are both fine. I probably call flop to keep in the BTNs dominated hands like QdQx.
2/5 AKo flops top top NFD 3 way Quote
08-03-2022 , 09:56 AM
Def shipping it in pre flop.

As played, I would call flop. In position and not really worried about any turn card. Let this guy punt if that's what's happening. I think shoving is fine too FWIW.
2/5 AKo flops top top NFD 3 way Quote
08-03-2022 , 11:36 AM
With almost $250 already in the pot, I ship it pre.

As played I’m probably calling to give BU the chance to come along for the ride. There’s a decent chance he’s calling with a hand with very little equity like QdQx and AK which we’re freerolling against.
2/5 AKo flops top top NFD 3 way Quote
08-04-2022 , 02:33 AM
Jam pre, especially with the overcaller.

As played, I would flat the donk lead as we have this board on lock. We want the villain on the button to continue with his hands we dominate (QQdx, JJdx, AQxd)

SPR is super low and we will be getting it in regardless.
2/5 AKo flops top top NFD 3 way Quote
08-08-2022 , 02:45 AM
Thank you all for the feedback.
I agree with the suggestions to jam preflop. I tend to just call in these situations and see a flop as I want to somewhat reduce variance. Maybe this is a mistake though.

I also agree with calling the flop bet to keep the button in the hand.

I actually jammed the flop. Button is not happy and folds.
Donk better snap calls with QJ
Turn 6
River 4

Lucky river for me

Button says he had AK
2/5 AKo flops top top NFD 3 way Quote
08-08-2022 , 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zag24
Preflop: AK really wants only one opponent, and there's that dead money in there from BBs call of the 3bet. Your choices should be either raise all in or fold, depending on the 3bet range you put Button on. If he is a tight old-school player whose 3bet range is strictly QQ+ and AK, then just fold, but you only have to add in TT, JJ, and AQ to make this a profitable shove, especially if he will fold TT and JJ.
This

4bet (in this case it would be a jam with 100 bb's eff) or fold pre ainec. I don't worry about being "too nitty" if I know the 3bet outa the blinds is very narrow.
2/5 AKo flops top top NFD 3 way Quote

      
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