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2/5 AA Line Check - Turn +EV? 2/5 AA Line Check - Turn +EV?

05-01-2013 , 07:31 PM
JWild Round by Round - PLO/Holdem Game.
Frequent 1-2k pots in both games.

V1: Established PLO 5/10 pro at Horseshoe Hammond. Attacks weakness. Raises and calls extremely light preflop. Capable of huge semi bluffs. His biggest leak is gambling way too much. (covers)

V2: fishy older man. A bit of a calling station. (Covers)

V3: Good hand reader. Capable of semibluff raising and some very wide ranges preflop. Also known to gamble quite a bit. (covers)

Hero: ($720~) Tightest player at table. I've been Extremely card dead in both games so I've been extra out of pots. I play a TAG style raising a bit light in position but am viewed as a Nit.

V1 raises to $25. V2 and V3 call.
Hero in SB raises to $100 with AsAc.

All 3 call.

Flop: $400
9s67s

Hero leads for $200.

My bet was to begin building a pot with worse pairs and combo draws. I was planning to bet/call V1/V3 and fold to a V2 raise. Also I was planning to shove most turns.

V3 calls. Rest fold.

Turn ($800~)
2s

I shove $420~.

Thoughts on line?

I didn't think the 2s was the best card on the turn but it's also not in the worst 15-20% of cards.

Last edited by YoungPokerStar; 05-01-2013 at 07:53 PM.
2/5 AA Line Check - Turn +EV? Quote
05-01-2013 , 07:34 PM
Since it may be relevant,
V3 check/called a flop bet in Omaha against me where I flopped top two on a draws board. V3 led turn which completed a gutter and led river which completed a backdoor straight. I folded river where he showed a float and rivered 1 pair.
2/5 AA Line Check - Turn +EV? Quote
05-01-2013 , 07:38 PM
Raise more pre since your OOP and V's are sticky. I would say at least $150.

I am fine with a shove since you have less than a PSB left and turn card is relatively safe.
2/5 AA Line Check - Turn +EV? Quote
05-01-2013 , 07:52 PM
I would have raised more pre like $200-225, especially OOP.

As played, I either overbet maybe a little less than you did, or with wet board OOP with 3 callers maybe just c/c or c/f flop and reeval turn.

Last edited by RecreationalFishie; 05-01-2013 at 08:16 PM.
2/5 AA Line Check - Turn +EV? Quote
05-01-2013 , 08:30 PM
I would probably just overbet shove flop OOP against 3 other players and an SPR of less than 2.
2/5 AA Line Check - Turn +EV? Quote
05-02-2013 , 03:22 AM
150 pre and go from there to get your stack in against these guys. getting a single caller will allow you to easily stack off post flop with an SPR less than 2. hand will pretty much play itself.
2/5 AA Line Check - Turn +EV? Quote
05-02-2013 , 08:52 AM
If you think you can get away with it, go bigger preflop. The bigger the better here because you not going to be deep if you get callers and you have AA OOP. With multiple sticky villains who already called a raise, I would go $125-$150 here.

Flop bet isn't big enough on a fairly wet board with 3 villains. Once you get 3 callers pot is so big your essentially pot committed on flop with AA. Go $300 and shove all turns or just shove into them if you think you can called by draws.
2/5 AA Line Check - Turn +EV? Quote
05-02-2013 , 09:31 AM
I raise it bigger pre. 130-150 here. Were OOP in the SB.

Also thats standard shove OTT.
2/5 AA Line Check - Turn +EV? Quote
05-02-2013 , 10:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fogodchao
150 pre and go from there to get your stack in against these guys. getting a single caller will allow you to easily stack off post flop with an SPR less than 2. hand will pretty much play itself.
+1
2/5 AA Line Check - Turn +EV? Quote
05-02-2013 , 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fogodchao
150 pre and go from there to get your stack in against these guys. getting a single caller will allow you to easily stack off post flop with an SPR less than 2. hand will pretty much play itself.
Horrible advice. Hero is perceived as a nit, and you want to bomb it to 150 PF? Any post involving SPR at low-stakes is usually non-sense too.

Hero should have 3-bet to a maximum of 135, probably 125 better because he has a nitty image.
2/5 AA Line Check - Turn +EV? Quote
05-02-2013 , 11:41 AM
Obviousky , 100 3-bet was too small a sizing, but everyone here who posts about 3-betting extra big to create small SPRs are just advocating scared money poker that leaves way too much money on the table.

Please remember that Hero is the tightest player at the table. The time to squeeze 3-bet extra big with AA is when you have a LAG image and people are tired of your incessant squeeze plays. Then they might spazz shove 99 over your over bet 3-bet.

Remember also that 2 of the Villains here are competent. So they will choose fold if "the nit" 3-bets extra big.
2/5 AA Line Check - Turn +EV? Quote
05-02-2013 , 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATsai
Horrible advice. Hero is perceived as a nit, and you want to bomb it to 150 PF? Any post involving SPR at low-stakes is usually non-sense too.

Hero should have 3-bet to a maximum of 135, probably 125 better because he has a nitty image.
After V1 raises to 25 and other 2 Vs call there is 82 in the pot before our bet? With frequent pots of 1-2k and V1/V3 described as likes to gamble and V2 is a calling station why not raise to potentially ISO one of them? I'd rather take down a pot of 82 then face 3 potential Vs with Aces.

And yes I do realize both V1 and V3 are viewed as competent but as described V1's biggest leak is gambling way too much.

Last edited by Wags88; 05-02-2013 at 11:52 AM.
2/5 AA Line Check - Turn +EV? Quote
05-02-2013 , 11:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wags88
After V1 raises to 25 and other 2 Vs call there is 82 in the pot before our bet? With frequent pots of 1-2k and V1/V3 described as likes to gamble and V2 is a calling station why not raise to potentially ISO one of them? I'd rather take down a pot of 82 then face 3 potential Vs with Aces.
+1.

Especially when all three villains "know" Hero-nit has AA.
2/5 AA Line Check - Turn +EV? Quote
05-02-2013 , 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wags88
After V1 raises to 25 and other 2 Vs call there is 82 in the pot before our bet? With frequent pots of 1-2k and V1/V3 described as likes to gamble and V2 is a calling station why not raise to potentially ISO one of them? I'd rather take down a pot of 82 then face 3 potential Vs with Aces.
Scared money thinking here. If Hero makes it $125, anyone calling the $100 more is making a fundamental mistake. Let them make mistakes. Don't help them make the correct folds preflop by bombing it to 150.
2/5 AA Line Check - Turn +EV? Quote
05-02-2013 , 11:55 AM
Raise more pf, rest of hand is played fine
2/5 AA Line Check - Turn +EV? Quote
05-02-2013 , 11:58 AM
Most LA regs think I am a competent LAG who gambles too much. And I'm folding anything less than AK/QQ+ in the tightest player at the table bombs it to 150 pf.

Besides, OP said V1 semi-bluffs big a ton. So, V1 gambles too much on the aggro side, not on the passive station side.
2/5 AA Line Check - Turn +EV? Quote
05-02-2013 , 12:09 PM
I think 125 is >>> 100 and deeper I'd go a bit more and even if we bump it up to 150 and the OR folds we can still get a call from the fishy older guy.

Fwiw this is like one of the worst flops possible for OP and I'd prefer to bet a bit more but the current bet sets up a nice sized turn ship.

That being said if 3betting is turning our hand face up the larger picture problem is that we aren't 3betting wide enough.
2/5 AA Line Check - Turn +EV? Quote
05-02-2013 , 12:13 PM
You guys are giving the older guy way too much credit for having a decent starting hand.

He may be calling the OR lightly because he perceives the OR as a LAG, and older fish love calling mediocre hands against LAGs.

So, the older guy may very well snap-fold his mediocre hand to the 150 bomb, but he might consider calling the normal-sized 125 for "pot odds."
2/5 AA Line Check - Turn +EV? Quote
05-02-2013 , 12:14 PM
fwiw with stack sizes I think 125 > 150 > 100
2/5 AA Line Check - Turn +EV? Quote
05-02-2013 , 12:16 PM
The problem is the bet size set off of a cascade of calls. You will hear the fish all the time say they are priced in and have to call since the others did. I want to make the sizing large enough where I can make it head-up since I am out of position.

In position is a different story.
2/5 AA Line Check - Turn +EV? Quote
05-02-2013 , 12:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11t
fwiw with stack sizes I think 125 > 150 > 100
Since we are over 100BB deep, I am adding an extra x. So I favor the $150 more than the $125.
2/5 AA Line Check - Turn +EV? Quote
05-02-2013 , 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATsai
Horrible advice. Hero is perceived as a nit, and you want to bomb it to 150 PF? Any post involving SPR at low-stakes is usually non-sense too.

Hero should have 3-bet to a maximum of 135, probably 125 better because he has a nitty image.
This. This 2/5 game at HH is my game too btw.

Too much talk about preflop itt.

Turn opens up a couple of different options. We could bet or c/r. Bet is a good default though.
2/5 AA Line Check - Turn +EV? Quote
05-02-2013 , 12:34 PM
Well we can't really chr the turn since if they bet it will be a ship and I think his hand looks like TT/JJ unless OP is really an lolsuper nit and they flatted a flopped set or something dumb.
2/5 AA Line Check - Turn +EV? Quote
05-02-2013 , 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ikestoys
This. This 2/5 game at HH is my game too btw.

Too much talk about preflop itt.

Turn opens up a couple of different options. We could bet or c/r. Bet is a good default though.
Game isn't actually at HH though. Just helping define villain with wheree he plays regularly.

Glad to hear the consensus was with me that it was played fine for the most part.

I would agree that $125>$100. I think I start getting too many folds at $150.
2/5 AA Line Check - Turn +EV? Quote

      
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