9 Handed 2/5 game with a mandatory straddle for all orbits, so basically playing like a 5/10 game. Most players have between 1k-5k.

Villain - Its 6 A.M. and he is literally falling asleep at the table. Ive only been at the table for an hour, but he seems like an obvious passive fish. Hes limp/calling lots of hands pre, and also seems to be fishing pretty light postflop. In the one hand I played vs. him, I raised pre/bet flop with a weak pair. Then allllll of the scare cards hit the turn & river but it checked through and I won with my pair somehow.

But in the VERY previous hand at the table, villain shoved $700 into a $500 pot vs. a laggier player on an 8433ss board. His opponent mucked an overpair and villain showed an 8. Another player at the table said he folded 83.

Hero has a smidge over 1k and villain covers.

5 players limp
Villain is in the SB and raises to $85
Folds to Hero in the Straddle w/ TT
Hero calls $85
Folds around

Flop ($225): 983:
Villain checks
Hero bets $95
Villain calls $95

Turn ($435): 7
Villain checks
Hero bets $165
Villain calls $165

River ($765): 8
Villain shoves ~$680 effective

Ill save my thought process for later. Curious about what you guys think of his play, my line, & subsequent river decision. All comments appreciated

From a player like this, it's a very strong raise. I would just check back turn for pot control and probably even fold river if he donks a brick because I don't really think he's firing back with AK/AQ type hands on a donk river, thinking his hand may be good. If he checks back the river after you checking back turn, you can easily bet it for some nice value.

As played, there doesn't seem to be any real reason to call with TT. Sure he made one weird move turning a hand into a bluff, but nothing about this hand seems to indicate that could be the case. Against his potential range, TT is an awful hero call and really shouldn't even be considered.

Given your description of him, it smells a lot like an overpair, concentrated toward the upper end because he'd probably cbet flop with JJ/QQ rather than risk losing the overpair. 99 could be another real possibility.

check/call OTF, check/call OTT, openshove PSB OTR is not a line you want to be calling against with one pair on this board against all but the loosest of villans. This is the scariest line. Hand is played well pre, OTF, and OTT. Now fold.

Weird line but cant see how we are good here. Cant see any hand calling flop and turn bricking river and turning it into a bluff to do this. I d probably also check OTT and see what he does OTR but betting is fine too with our oesd pick up. Well played IMHO.

This is really hard to decide what to do. I fold this if i only have the information that you gave us. Probably check turn and see what V does after that.

In a games i usually play, there are 1 or 2 players (when they are in a certain mood) that i snapcall this river, coz it´s +90% bluff with missed AK. Most of the time this is a snapfold.

Snap call.

Call...? How is this a call much less a snap call?

What is he checking OTF with?

Since we block JT, really the only value hand that he can have that beats us is 99.

This is highly likely to be [A-big, K-big] trying to spike an A or K OTT or OTR and bluffing at the pot now that he's missed.

Very unlikely he plays JJ+ like this.

ETA: IMO, if you're not calling here because you think this is a "big bet == monster" spot, then you're playing to big and you should not be in this game.

FWIW, I think Hero's line is meh.

I think I'm usually checking back the turn.

Hero's weak-sauce bet sizing is bad too.

Why can't villain have an 8? What bluff can be the aggressor, decide to c/c twice, and THEN donk?

He doesn't have JT in his range to begin with, that's not why we're folding. We're folding because he is more likely to have value than a bluff (or worse value) by far.

I think if he has any value at all OTF [1p, overpair, JT], he leads the flop, or x/r the turn.

I just don't see how he doesn't put a bet out there with A8, or JJ+, OTF.

It seems like he wouldn't be raising from the SB with 8x though, so I don't see how many 8x hands he can have.

Why doesn't he fold 8x OTT? (Granted, H's weak-sauce bet is a problem...)

Needing only 32% equity here, IMO, easy call since V can certainly be bluffing.

Passive player is acting aggressive. Should be relatively easy to range him.

Medium PP+, big suited broadway (dependent of how he perceives their value), big ace.

Bad player switching gear: draw or nutted hand.

Consider the board is relatively dry, he would most certainly slowplay the very top of his range.

What about over pair? V might slowplay KK+ because there aren't that many obvious scared cards, but again, high variance without better read. Nevertheless, a moot point in this spot because it is still better than our hand and unlikely folding.

Draws? There are really no draws other than JTs, and even though it is rather high variance spot to put JTs in V's range preflop, there are only 2 remaining combos - moot point.

What about over cards? Sure, he's likely to peel one off.

I'll go to nutted hand last.

Two combos of JTs got there, and the likelihood of c/c vs CR with JT is probably 1:9. Backdoor flush is now possible, and he probably doesn't want the board to pair given size of your turn bet (big bet/big hand).

Over cards? Always folding at this point and certainly never c/c, unless of course he turned flush draw.

KK+? Will likely just call, but again, moot point against our hand.

Set? MUBS is creeping in. Passive players play the way they do is because they always remember losing to nutted hands.

Bad players' typical thought process: I don't want you to check behind when I have the nuts.

Easy fold. I can't rationalize any combos in V's range that we can beat other than maybe 3 combos of KQ/AQ/AKdd.

6:3 is slightly +EV to call, and 6:2 or worse would make this a pretty expensive call. Either way, I think this spot is very thin if profitable at all.

So V has zero bluffs?

~~~

Also, being at the table for 1 hour means reads are not strong.

With that rationale, how do we ever find a fold?

Let's pretend the read is strong and we're dealing with a typical bad passive fish.

What combos are left for him to bluff on river?

He's not going to turn his hands with SD value into bluff, so we can forget 9x, and he's certainly not going to bluff with 66.

OP says V did 2 minutes ago.

Anyway, V can have [A-big, K-big], so there are plenty of combos that V can be bluffing with.

This is a call for several reasons. The main being that he didn't turn 8x into a bluff that other hand. He just shipped because he is a level 1 thinker. Villain having a nutted hand here is very unlikely. We block T8 which he shouldn't even have because of the pf action (as wel as 68). Any nutted hand is probably x/r turn given how wet the board got. We block JT anyway. The fact that villain is vbetting worse (like 9x) because he is bad and has done this before combined with the fact that he could be bluffing is making this a call when we only need to be right ~33% of the time. Really don't think he plays JJ-AA like this but if he did then NH

Yeah, "we haven't played long enough" should not be an excuse to not make the correct play.

Not really what he said, but ok.

Which of those are calling turn?

Agreed, but by river, he's also very unlikely to have anything else.

Agreed.

We eliminated 2 combos of JTs, but there are still 2 left.

Information was partial. It makes difference whether V was also aggressor in that hand.

Why would 9x play passively flop when it is a perfect spot for him to bet?

What about turn? Why shove river?

He could always be bluffing, but with what can V be bluffing?

More valuable exercise is listing out why and why not.

Seriously, if you find villains who are the PFR folding [A-big, K-big] on 9-high flops to bets OTF and OTT, then you should just bet all flops and turns.

Are you trying to convince me that players in your game would raise $85 pre, check/call $95 on 9-high flop, then check/call meaningless turn card for $165 with Ax and Kx?

If so, only response I have is, congratulation, you're playing in a great pool.

Well, we *should* be double barrelling boards like this a lot when PFR checks to us ...

Still, though, the exploitability there mostly lies in checking an unbalanced range; not so much in not x/c'ing two streets with K-high. x/c'ing down with the bottom of your range is like the most easily exploitable **** ever.

Anyway, K-high is probably a bit of a moot point anyway, since an "obvious passive fish" made it 8.5bbs preflop from the SB over 5 limpers. We were probably never ahead in this hand. I like the small flop bet to protect against AQ+, but I probably just check the turn and hope to improve or to get an acceptable price on the river.

That board isn't great for pfr range. That's fine. Folding some overcards in that spot both turn and flop is standard as part of a balanced strategy, not to mention people don't auto stab necessarily there. Also since we put some of those hands in our betting range as PFR, we don't have all of them as c/c (or any, depending on how you structure it).

This is a fold on the river but not for most of the logic posted in this thread. Turn is such an easy check back. Why can't villain have an overpair or set here that he is playing tricky? He also can't have an 8 because he bomb raised over a bunch of limpers pre, learn to hand read guys.

lol @ can't having an 8 because he raised pre over limpers.