No real reads table recently started. Main villain didn’t want to play a 10 dollar bomb pot when rest of table agreed not sure if I should read anything into that

UTG straddle. One limp i raise to 45 with K7 of diamonds

Straddle calls and cutoff limper calls (I have about 1000 he has around 800)

Flop is k q 7 one spade. Checks to me and I bet 50 cutoff calls

Turn is 8 of spades bringing back door spade draw

Checks to me and I bet 110 he raises to 285

I jam.. is this too thin or do we call evaluate? Hard to put him on a hand that beats me besides maybe KQ

Fold. Pre.

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Pre is awful

Size up flop a lot on that board

Assume this is 8 handed or more. Which makes this a snap fold pre.

If it's 4 handed or something stupid, then maybe it's different.

Flop is $65/$70 given how wet the board is. Lots of worse hands in his range that will call more. And we're really only losing to approx 6 combos of KQ.

"Main villain didn’t want to play a 10 dollar bomb pot when rest of table agreed not sure if I should read anything into that"

That's usually a sign of nitty/non-gamblers in my location.

He could still have 77 or 88......or even QQ if you have no reads.

What is he calling a shove with that you beat? AQss?

I'd fold pre. As played, bet bigger on the turn. I think anything from 2/3 to 1.5 pot looks good. When they raise, I would just call and call down most rivers.

Pre is fold I get that. What is his raising range on turn?

Deciding whether to call or raise is a complicated decision but No - jam is not thin.

We're on BTN pre so I may iso this in some lineups, otherwise fold. Flop sizing is reasonable. On the turn, V has ~700 left in his stack and the pot is 240. Betting 110 doesn't really set us up to go for stacks so I don't like it, I'd prefer a bet of 180+.

Once V raises, I'd consider his range pretty strong due to Beluga theorem. If he's limp happy but not super loose, I'd expect to be shown KQ a lot of the time, as other 2pair+ hands are suited or just rare, combinations wise. Perhaps we call turn & fold rivers. You say this guy didn't want to play a $10 bomb pot at a 2/5 table which leans me to trying to make exploitative folds against him.

Respectfully disagree with the fold pre team. If I understood correctly we are BTN and it's a CO limp. CO limps are generally quite weak and it's a limp so CO isn't exactly Phil Ivey. Ok hand to iso fish with in this position on a soft table.

Go bigger on the turn for sure, ~200 to set up river shove. AP I peel one, there are combo draws and worse 2p that could do this, our <hp cbet looks weak, we heavily block 77 which is one of the main hands we don't want to be up against and the price is good. Probably fold river unimproved vs described villain though, but I expect him to give up bluffs.

I too am fine with the BTN iso given the circumstances, as long as this is something you are comfortable with and do regularly which I assume you do. The turn raise by V looks like nonsense, probably backdoor draw that should never have chased. I almost want to just 3bet and get it in here if he's willing, he's already put in about half his stack, and of course is playing <100BB with the straddle in play. We can punt here and be wrong for that. Otherwise do what crackedaa said and just call

No idea if we should fold or not pre but iso-ing a suited king from the button against LP can't be bad enough to warrant a full discussion over it. (FWIW, I raise there too. But I raise too much from LP)

I'm in the "bigger turn" camp. We have two pair against someone who limp called pre from LP. Not a fan of the raise but I'll call here and see a river.

I’m raising pre and playing the hand pretty much the same way except for some sizing nitpicking.


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Turn check raise: top and bottom pairs are no good.

Do you think he floated with 87s? Do you think a nitty player is doing this with JTs?

I don’t love preflop, I think you’re beat now, and if you are, you’re drawing thin to improve.

Fold pre

Call turn
(I don’t think I want any jams OTT here since u can easily get the money in OTR with ur thicc value and I can’t just go folding 2 pairs to a XR)

Pre is whatever. It's right on the edge of ISO or overlimp or fold. Probably pretty even EV or not enough negative to matter. Table/game dependent.


I'd expect to see 77, JsTs, or Ts9s here. And 77 only has one combo left.


I'd have to have some pretty good info/read on V to ever put him on something weird like QQ (you'll see some people so desperate to get into a pot with big pairs they limp in late position when the table folds around).

An especially sticky V might have 88, but meh, **** happens on that one.

We block 77, so unless V only ever c/r here with 77 or KQ (again, need some pretty specific info), we aren't folding.



And also without specific read, I'd probably jam here. JTss and T9ss probably aren't folding at this point. And I'd need specific info to know V is capably of shoving bricked rivers with air.



You will sometimes run into K8 and KQ (more K8 than KQ in this spot) unfortunately. But also Q8 Q7 JT T9......so, probably just like pre flop.......probably calling vs shoving is close enough to not stress over.

So, we are putting this V on limping with KQ and 77, both of which we block?? If you're giving him a limp/call with KQ, you have to give him Q7 and Q8 (as well as K8). Floating with middle pair definitely wouldn't be out of the question if he's capably of limp/calling KQ.

We can only lose to KK, QQ, KQ, 77, 88. Most everyone will say not really possible for KK or QQ. That leaves KQ 77 88. If you don't think he's doing this with 87s, then 88 is also out of his range.

So....KQ and 77. Which we block both. 6 combos of KQ and 1 combo of 77.




Not disagreeing completely......it just seems like a really hard spot to make a fold. And I think we'd need much more specific info than "didn't play a bomb pot" one time when it was just a one time thing the table agreed on.

Yeah, this V doesn't sound like a "float" kind of guy. He's not even calling the flop without a draw to the nuts, since H has nut and range advantage on flop.

V's x/raise sizing makes him pretty much committed since he's put ~half of his stack in the middle already. So H has no FE basically. V's line suggests he'd be happy taking a free river card but is also happy to play for stacks here. He almost always has KQ, AsJs or JsTs.

AP turn: we can just call getting a nice price at 7-2 to fade spade, A,9 river when we're ahead. No more money comes in on river obviously, since non-paired river kills action either way. Or if we jam, we offer V 2-1 to call. KQ, rare set snaps us. JsTs has ~17 outs and gets the right price and probably snaps. I think the math suggests we call turn at 7-2 and try to fade the river. The extra 5% on the two remaining 7x helps a little too.

So here is the very interesting part,

After I jammed he tanked for a good minute then called. River was 3 of spades completing the BD flush draw. I show and he mucks

Such a confusing hand to me because what could he have had? Maybe 7 8? Weirdly overplayed AK?

I decided to jam because I squarely was losing to KQ and 77. He may jam combo draws like 9 10 of spades that called flop due to my small sizing, but when spades got there on river and I somehow won the hand I was scratching my head a bit, especially since he seemed like a thinking player (after playing with him a few hours) and also wasn’t the loosest player

Or maybe he was bluffing turn with 9 10 offsuit then felt priced in, not sure

A big part of fish logic is bluffing with the best hand. He may have had nothing more than KJo here, but to him he thinks *you're bluffing*, and fish respond to bluffs by raising because they want to just end the action and scoop the pot now rather than make a difficult decision on later streets. Calling your shove is just lol-tastic, he probably had no reason for that at all other than pulling a Robbie and "I put you on AK" and call it off because they are just completely lost in the hand and dont know whats going on anymore.

Aren’t we assuming KQ and 77 often open co? We are beating some 2p too. Call turn call river easy game.

Don’t mind a K7 iso if co is very bad.

Awesome example of yet again why “live tells” is almost always a crapshoot unless many, many hours and hands.

Pretty easy for someone to look like a very good or very bad player in a 3hr sample size.

I like the shove based on the reasonable range you put him on, and it was an even better shove when we go results oriented because his range was much wider than expected.

If it’s a weak/passive live game, I’d put KQ and 77 into 50/50 if just using a population read.

Both will get opened as well as limp/called depending on the passivity of the table.