2/4 9max

vil1 (co, loose passiv fish) eff stack 800
vil2 (btn, loose aggro fish) eff stack 400

utg (hero) open 20 w/ QQ, 4 caller (2x ip, 2x oop relativ to hero)

pot ~100

flop (5way) 653r

x, x, hero x, vil1 bet 50, vil2 call 50, 2x fold, hero ?

cbet the flop, as played call

cbetting this flop is really bad 5 ways

Either cbetting or checking is a good action. If you do cbet, at most halfpot is good. If it was heads up, you can size up your cbets on this board.

Do you think V1 is betting aggressively on the flop. (you tagged V1 as passive but not sure if you mean pre or postflop)? If you think they bet one pair hands here you can call with plans to call down on clean runouts. If you think they are mostly doing this with two pair plus, then consider folding a portion of the time here.

Regardless, QQ is one of the best hands in your range right now, so I would generally call down to showdown against aggro postflop players.

Curious, would you just be range checking this board then? I think range checking this would be quite detrimental since we can get value with our overpairs , sets , and maybe some two pair in our range

if you call otf, what would be your plan for the rest of the hand? ingame my thinking was that i could probably call otf, but it would be pretty hard to get to showdown oop vs 2 (one being some sort of maniac) and i don't want to pile in more money.
loose passive pref and postf. if vil1 bluffed it was for small size, e.g. 1/3 pot. in this bloated pot, 50% pot bet and the nominal value of 50$ seems like a high amount for him to bet.

It is a bad spot when the loose passive fish bets and you are OOP the rest of the hand. I still feel like you can profitably peel if he is the type to slow down without a set. The loose aggro guy we have to be good against his hand 90% of the time if he is just calling and probably behind 90% vs the other guy. Price is about right to peel if you think he slows down whenever he is not sure if he has the best hand. Maybe he takes this line with 88-1010? Or even JJ? The simple low variance play is to fold, which I don’t think is bad, but I like calling and seeing another street because maybe he took your check as AK or AQ type hand.

larry is pretty spot on, you can fold based on the sizing tell or call flop but still be wary of future streets. If he still bets largish on future streets, he should be pretty nutted now after two callers so I can justify overpairs folding.

This is just a hard spot sincr you can’t sensibly display any more aggression once you check the flop, so playing passively and letting IP blast off with whatever one pairs they can have here should be the plan now.

I'm not folding queens for a hp bet here otf after we as the original raiser checked

That's really why I prefer to bet. We have queens on a 6 high flop, and I would expect at least one or two people to call anyway so it's more for value than narrowing down the field. If we had AK, AQ or 77 I would check but queens is a pretty good hand on that flop so rather than go into c/c mode and start guessing what everyone has I rather just bet myself and see who calls (it's much easier to narrow down their ranges on later streets too that way) if we cbet and the weak passive guy raises, we can easily fold depending on the player. if 3 people call, then I can still check/evaluate the turn.

Do you want to get in 200 bb in with an overpair vs a loose passive player in a multiway pot? That doesn't sound great to me tbh. I would check call.

i didn't say I was gonna gii, but I prefer to keep initiative and control of the pot rather than c/c and guess if I should call a psb otf vs the last guy it got checked to. I'm most likely however going into c/c mode if it stays multiway ott and/or beyond, btjm.